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Haiti
January 16, 2010
6:59 pm PDT
Spiritedgirl
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Today's blog:

God's Will?

by Karen Frazier, Managing Editor

Paranormal Underground Magazine

Blame the victim. We see it time and time again. Just yesterday, Pat Robertson blamed the Haitians for the recent earthquake that has killed nearly 100,000 people.

According to Robertson, Haiti made a “deal with the devil” in order to gain independence from France. That’s why the island nation is repeatedly slammed with natural disasters and enveloped in overwhelming poverty according to Robertson. That’s right. It’s their fault. God got them. Good for God.

Sounds like Robertson’s God is a downright vengeful dirt bag who is utterly lacking in compassion.

Comments like Robertson’s during times of tragedy always leave me with my jaw hanging open.

During times of tragedy, times of pain, times of deep personal grief, usually hearing, “It’s God’s will” or one of the zillions of variations of this statement is not a comfort. As a matter of fact, statements like that to a grieving person are downright insensitive. Whether it is hearing, “God killed your puppy,” “God made your team lose,” or “God just opened a can of whoop **** on your nation,” surely those statements can’t be helpful or comforting in moments of pain. Can they????

Even if there is a greater purpose and plan in everything that happens, certainly in the moments of deepest pain those who are grieving will receive little comfort from having God’s plan shoved down their throats. They may (or they may not) arrive at the belief that it was part of a greater plan on their own. But in the midst of their grief I do not believe it is anyone’s place to point that out.

When I was 16, one of my best friends was mowed down by a drunk driver on the first night of spring break. He was on the side of the road changing a tire. As a group of his friends, we were raw and we were grieving. Thank goodness we had Marti.

“God wanted Dan,” she told us with a perky (and some might say smugly superior) smile on her face. “He just became a Christian, so God took him.”

That statement felt like a gut punch, pure and simple. Well – and an untruth. I knew Dan pretty well, and he grew up Catholic. There was no “just became a Christian.” Whatever faith he had was private. There was no way that twit, Marti, would know.

What it felt like to us – his friends – was that Marti grabbed Dan’s death (a deeply personal tragedy to us) and tried to use it to support her own personal Christian agenda. This was when I first turned away from the church, which I felt had no answers. Notice I said I turned away from the church. Not God. At times in my life I have been a believer, and at other times an agnostic. Now my faith doesn’t quite fit in with any organized religion out there. But this isn’t about my faith – or lack thereof. This is about how faith is sometimes used.

In a very short period of time following Dan’s death, there were two other deaths of kids our age. It was like repeated gut blows. And each time, Marti and friends would come forward with some stunning statement similar to the one they’d made about Dan.

Does God really wield an axe that He uses at His will whenever He feels like it – smiting nations that have made fictional “deals with the devil”, punishing those who love differently with horrifying and incurable epidemics or sending martyrs to fly planes into buildings?

I don’t know. I’d like to think not. I have no idea if God has a will at all, and I can’t even prove that there is a God to have a will. And if I don’t know, how can Pat Robertson know? How can Marti know?

Here’s what I do know. In times of tragedy, if people are comforted by turning to God, then by all means, they should do so. If, on the other hand, they need to process their grief and pain in other ways, who are we to step in and shove God down their throats?

Put yourself in someone else’s shoes. You are standing there – raw and in pain – in the smoldering ashes of all that you knew and all that you loved. It’s gone, and it hurts. Which would you rather hear?

“Well it was God’s will, you know. Good luck with that.”

“I’m here for you. I love you. How can I help?”

I know which one I would rather hear. For that matter, I know which one I would rather say to someone in pain. Surely even God can allow for such compassion.

Karen, you are my hero!

I have an idea that the phrase "weaker sex" was coined by some woman to disarm some man she was preparing to overwhelm. ~Ogden Nash



January 16, 2010
9:33 pm PDT
Jamie Powell
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I think Limbaugh is another fraud, pandering to the basest of human emotion. Racism, sexism, xenophobia . . . fostering fear of intellectual discovery.

I, for one, don't find Limbaugh a fraud, ect. He speaks a lot of sense if only ppl are open enough to hear what he has to say. I don't agree with everything he has to say but am not writing him off .

I don't pander to all of his politics but most of what he says does make sense, then again, to each his own. The new findings on global warming, (or the lack of) for one.

January 16, 2010
9:41 pm PDT
Jamie Powell
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Just an FYI – if you want to help by donating some $$ to Haiti, we've always found this organization to be a good one:

Medical Teams International

No problem donating to the poor ppl of Haiti but what about the farmers a few months ago in this country who lost everything from floods? We didn't hear Obuma asking for aid for them, did we?

January 16, 2010
10:49 pm PDT
Spiritedgirl
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No problem donating to the poor ppl of Haiti but what about the farmers a few months ago in this country who lost everything from floods? We didn't hear Obuma asking for aid for them, did we?

For me, donating to the people of Haiti (or any other charitable donations I make) has nothing to do with President Obama. I do it because for me it

is the right thing to do. It's about human decency and compassion for my fellow man.

I have an idea that the phrase "weaker sex" was coined by some woman to disarm some man she was preparing to overwhelm. ~Ogden Nash



January 16, 2010
11:01 pm PDT
Jamie Powell
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For me, donating to the people of Haiti (or any other charitable donations I make) has nothing to do with President Obama. I do it because for me it

is the right thing to do. It's about human decency and compassion for my fellow man.

Are you saying I'm not being compassionate? I don't feel that you know me well enough to make that assumption. It has everything to do with Obuma in that he himself is asking for us to

donate. Why did it take him 3 days to comment on the Fort Hood terrorist attack but only a short time to address this? Why is he asking for donations to be sent to White House.Gov instead of

the Red Cross? It shows me where his priorities are at & it's not for this country. JMO

January 16, 2010
11:05 pm PDT
sithy
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Sorry to say it, but a politician is a politician. The Repugnicans (sp /wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />) were/are a large supporter of Big Tobacco and their lies, so I don't think any Republicans, or their supporters are better morally than any of the Democrats. Both sides of the aisle have been using the American people as pawns since the inception of this country, the only difference between the two sides is that at least there are some Democrats who act like they care, where as their are a lot of Republicans (I didn't say all) who will tell you they don't, unless of course you show them the money. And I am talking about the policy makers here, not the common, everyday voter.

Either way, I don't trust any of them as far as I can throw them. I personally would like to see Americans get pissed off enough that they would force changes, but as long as The Powers That Be can keep the people of this country enslaved to the almighty dollar (and thus the banking system), as well as keeping them ignorant to what is going on around the world (yes, censorship is a reality), then there won't be change. Though I am interested in what the Tea Party has to say. I've been thinking about checking them out.

One question though, where was the government when Hurricane Katrina first hit? Not saying we shouldn't help the people of Haiti, I'm just curious about the rush by our government to respond to something happening in a foreign country, but when it is comes to a catastrophic event in our own country, that urgency by the government seems to be lacking .

January 16, 2010
11:18 pm PDT
Jamie Powell
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Sorry to say it, but a politician is a politician. The Repugnicans (sp /wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />) were/are a large supporter of Big Tobacco and their lies, so I don't think any Republicans, or their supporters are better morally than any of the Democrats. Both sides of the aisle have been using the American people as pawns since the inception of this country, the only difference between the two sides is that at least there are some Democrats who act like they care, where as their are a lot of Republicans (I didn't say all) who will tell you they don't, unless of course you show them the money. And I am talking about the policy makers here, not the common, everyday voter.

Either way, I don't trust any of them as far as I can throw them. I personally would like to see Americans get pissed off enough that they would force changes, but as long as The Powers That Be can keep the people of this country enslaved to the almighty dollar (and thus the banking system), as well as keeping them ignorant to what is going on around the world (yes, censorship is a reality), then there won't be change. Though I am interested in what the Tea Party has to say. I've been thinking about checking them out.

One question though, where was the government when Hurricane Katrina first hit? Not saying we shouldn't help the people of Haiti, I'm just curious about the rush by our government to respond to something happening in a foreign country, but when it is comes to a catastrophic event in our own country, that urgency by the government seems to be lacking .

I happen to be an Independent but as far as Katrina goes I believe there was aid sent but it was the corruption of the local governments that fouled that up, imo. Yes, the Tea Party has much that this country

needs but we need someone who can lead with integrity. In my opinion, it's not Obuma.

January 16, 2010
11:25 pm PDT
sithy
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I happen to be an Independent but as far as Katrina goes I believe there was aid sent but it was the corruption of the local governments that fouled that up, imo. Yes, the Tea Party has much that this country

needs but we need someone who can lead with integrity. In my opinion, it's not Obuma.

We haven't had a worthwhile leader in this country in a while, but to me Obama is much better than the torture supporting, control the American people at all cost (mostly through fear of terrorism) administration that preceded it. I would love to see a third party candidate win the presidency, but the question would then be, who really controls that particular party, and thus the candidate? The people, or those who pay the bills? As long as money is a determining factor in who wins an election I doubt there will be any significant change. Now, if a system could be devised where the Government provided the funds to any viable candidate, and they all received the same amount, then I think special interest groups would have less of a say. That would be better in my book.

January 16, 2010
11:25 pm PDT
Spiritedgirl
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Are you saying I'm not being compassionate? I don't feel that you know me well enough to make that assumption. It has everything to do with Obuma in that he himself is asking for us to

donate. Why did it take him 3 days to comment on the Fort Hood terrorist attack but only a short time to address this? Why is he asking for donations to be sent to White House.Gov instead of

the Red Cross? It shows me where his priorities are at & it's not for this country. JMO

I thought I made it fairly clear I was speaking about why I chose to donate. It had nothing to do with whether or not my President

asked me to do it, I did it because I felt it was the right thing FOR ME to do.

What you choose to do, and your reasons for doing it, are your business. I was just commenting on your post.

The question of whether or not you are a compassionate person would be better answered by you. As you said, I don't know you.

I would think it took him 3 days to comment on the Ft Hood tragedy because he was waiting to be fully briefed. Unlike the President before him,

it would appear he wants to avoid the experience of having to regurgitate his foot on a regular basis.

I have an idea that the phrase "weaker sex" was coined by some woman to disarm some man she was preparing to overwhelm. ~Ogden Nash



January 16, 2010
11:29 pm PDT
Jamie Powell
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Forum Posts: 215
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We haven't had a worthwhile leader in this country in a while, but to me Obama is much better than the torture supporting, control the American people at all cost (mostly through fear of terrorism) administration that preceded it. I would love to see a third party candidate win the presidency, but the question would then be, who really controls that particular party, and thus the candidate? The people, or those who pay the bills? As long as money is a determining factor in who wins an election I doubt there will be any significant change. Now, if a system could be devised where the Government provided the funds to any viable candidate, and they all received the same amount, then I think special interest groups would have less of a say. That would be better in my book.

I also would love to see a third party in power and you theory makes a lot of sense. I agree.

January 16, 2010
11:33 pm PDT
Jamie Powell
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I thought I made it fairly clear I was speaking about why I chose to donate. It had nothing to do with whether or not my President

asked me to do it, I did it because I felt it was the right thing FOR ME to do.

What you choose to do, and your reasons for doing it, are your business. I was just commenting on your post.

The question of whether or not you are a compassionate person would be better answered by you. As you said, I don't know you.

I would think it took him 3 days to comment on the Ft Hood tragedy because he was waiting to be fully briefed. Unlike the President before him,

it would appear he wants to avoid the experience of having to regurgitate his foot on a regular basis.

More likely that his teleprompter was broken. Second reason was that he really doesn't give a rat's **** about this country.

January 16, 2010
11:35 pm PDT
Spiritedgirl
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More likely that his teleprompter was broken. Second reason was that he really doesn't give a rat's **** about this country.

It seems we're at an impasse….again. /wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

I have an idea that the phrase "weaker sex" was coined by some woman to disarm some man she was preparing to overwhelm. ~Ogden Nash



January 16, 2010
11:37 pm PDT
Jamie Powell
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It seems we're at an impasse….again. /wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Laugh' />

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

I agree, I have more impt. things to ponder over. /dry.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />

January 17, 2010
1:10 am PDT
MissingK8
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to question president bush about anything was tantamount to treason. yet it is seen as perfectly fine, patriotic even, to state that president obama doesn't care what happens to the United States. that there are things going on behind the scenes doesn't even occur to people, but there are. unlike an earthquake where it is cut and dried an act of nature.

as long as the parties keep us squabbling amongst ourselves nothing is going to change. i am sick of liberal being a dirty word. i am tired of snide remarks being made whenever one tries to debate anything political. i am sick of hearing ranting know-it-alls on talk radio with absolutely no credentials being touted as geniuses just because they fit in with someone's already predisposed ideology; it doesn't matter if it's the truth: if they say it it becomes the truth. i am sick to death of being told i am afraid of sarah palin because she is representative of 'the common person'…i am scared of sarah palin because she is ignorant and apparently sees no need to change. no more, no less. and for some reason, ignorance is now equated with being something to be attained rather than overcome. jmho.

"We are the music makers... and we are the dreamers of dreams." - Willy Wonka (Gene Wilder)




"God is a kid with an ant farm." Constantine
January 17, 2010
1:24 am PDT
Guest
42382

More likely that his teleprompter was broken. Second reason was that he really doesn't give a rat's **** about this country.

I didn't vote for Obama, nor did I for the dopes on the other side. What I know for certain is you have no idea what the sitting president thinks about this country. What I am certain of is that a country, a people in our hemisphere need our help, and I will do whatever I need to help, regardless of what some dimwit radio host opines.

January 17, 2010
4:20 am PDT
sympathyforthedevil
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I didn't vote for Obama, nor did I for the dopes on the other side. What I know for certain is you have no idea what the sitting president thinks about this country. What I am certain of is that a country, a people in our hemisphere need our help, and I will do whatever I need to help, regardless of what some dimwit radio host opines.

It was a mere suggestion, or reaching out to the people anyway. I've seen many pres do this in times of need, nothing new.

I still have free will and will continue to give as I see fit.

The simple point was try to help or give to Haiti.

January 17, 2010
4:29 am PDT
Guest
42649

It was a mere suggestion, or reaching out to the people anyway. I've seen many pres do this in times of need, nothing new.

I still have free will and will continue to give as I see fit.

The simple point was try to help or give to Haiti.

Give help please.

January 17, 2010
4:35 am PDT
sympathyforthedevil
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Give help please.

I did the night it happened, mercy corps my fav help site to donate.

Oprah should give Robertson a hug. Her hugs are magical, maybe it would help humanize him.

Did wonders for Tom Cruise. /laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />

January 17, 2010
4:54 am PDT
NoWhammies
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What frustrates me is that people think this is about politics. It isn't, and it shouldn't be made to be about politics. It is about human beings experiencing devastation. I live in a community that was struck by a natural disaster. It was horrible. I saw the people deal with it first hand. I worked with those people for 10 to 12 hours a day, seven days a week for six weeks. I went home every night and cried at their pain. I had them in my home, where I gave them what they needed because I had everything and they lost everything. My children and husband worked by my side whenever they could. When I ventured out into the real world, it was hard to believe that there was a real world outside of the devastation and just a few miles away, life was going on as normal.

I saw politicians come into the help center and ignore the hurting people in order to make speeches on television. They didn't care about the hurting people. They cared about their political agendas and their images. I saw both democrats and republicans do this – just come in and act like they were campaigning – never taking a moment to meet these aching and wounded souls on a personal level.

I saw churches do the same. They came in and didn't help in any way that provided aid. They came in and preached and handed out pamphlets about turning to God during difficult times. Like the politicians, they got in the way of the work that we were trying to do on a person to person basis to help these people. We had to work around them. It wasn't just one church. It was many.

There was one church – ONE – that came in droves and did the person to person help that needed to be done. They worked their butts off beside me and the other volunteers. They didn't preach or talk about God. They only lived their message by being compassionate, caring and hard working. It was the LDS church (mormon). I have tremendous respect for the members of that church. Thousands of them got on buses in Salt Lake City as soon as they heard about the floods and drove all night to get here. And then they helped without preaching. They offered compassion without invoking God's name.

Compassion and help came from individuals – not entities. People who could ill afford it sent money and supplies. The outpouring of help and support was astounding – all from individuals who found caring and compassion inside of themselves because they realized people were hurting. That is the call that I answer in disaster – not the call of religion and not the call of politicians.

So to make disaster into a political or religious agenda – I know all about it and it sucks because I saw it first hand, and it completely lacked humanity, humility, compassion and love.

January 17, 2010
5:01 am PDT
sympathyforthedevil
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What frustrates me is that people think this is about politics. It isn't, and it shouldn't be made to be about politics. It is about human beings experiencing devastation. I live in a community that was struck by a natural disaster. It was horrible. I saw the people deal with it first hand. I worked with those people for 10 to 12 hours a day, seven days a week for six weeks. I went home every night and cried at their pain. I had them in my home, where I gave them what they needed because I had everything and they lost everything. My children and husband worked by my side whenever they could. When I ventured out into the real world, it was hard to believe that there was a real world outside of the devastation and just a few miles away, life was going on as normal.

I saw politicians come into the help center and ignore the hurting people in order to make speeches on television. They didn't care about the hurting people. They cared about their political agendas and their images. I saw both democrats and republicans do this – just come in and act like they were campaigning – never taking a moment to meet these aching and wounded souls on a personal level.

I saw churches do the same. They came in and didn't help in any way that provided aid. They came in and preached and handed out pamphlets about turning to God during difficult times. Like the politicians, they got in the way of the work that we were trying to do on a person to person basis to help these people. We had to work around them. It wasn't just one church. It was many.

There was one church – ONE – that came in droves and did the person to person help that needed to be done. They worked their butts off beside me and the other volunteers. They didn't preach or talk about God. They only lived their message by being compassionate, caring and hard working. It was the LDS church (mormon). I have tremendous respect for the members of that church. Thousands of them got on buses in Salt Lake City as soon as they heard about the floods and drove all night to get here. And then they helped without preaching. They offered compassion without invoking God's name.

Compassion and help came from individuals – not entities. People who could ill afford it sent money and supplies. The outpouring of help and support was astounding – all from individuals who found caring and compassion inside of themselves because they realized people were hurting. That is the call that I answer in disaster – not the call of religion and not the call of politicians.

So to make disaster into a political or religious agenda – I know all about it and it sucks because I saw it first hand, and it completely lacked humanity, humility, compassion and love.

Thank you, I feel the same!

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