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Yup….I noticed above that there wasn't a topic on Christianity, and being the little troublemaker I am, I wanted to open one up.
There seems to be lots of questions on this subject nowadays. What the religion really believes, how it has seemingly fallen on hard times, and why was it used for such evil in the past….
If you have any questions (NOT ARGUMENTS ), I will attempt to answer any I possibly can. I will NOT however, use this as an evangelism tool or any other such thing…I'm just another member, and I certainly would not view that as appropriate behavior on my favorite web site! /laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='
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My specialty ( if you can call it that ) is apologetics, which is simply the Greek form of the word "defense". I will try and answer every question as clearly as possible, and with no confusion.
But PLEASE!!! If you are here simply to argue, and NOT to learn about it, or ask about it….well, shoot…just don't be mean! /biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='
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First off, I do not consider myself a Christian, and I am not here to discuss my own personal salvation. I only wish to discuss that which I have been taught growing up, and supposed personal revelations I came upon when I used to study the Bible. I take what the Bible says with a grain of salt, and follow a more personal journey than that stated in the Good Book, though I think there is some mixture of the original message within. I just think it has been diluted over the centuries since its inception. Not saying I am correct and others aren't. It is only what I believe. That being said, I have a question.
Question: What is meant when it is said that the Old Testament in the Bible foreshadows the New Testament?
Case in point: The Holy of Holies which housed the Ark of the Covenant. Basically the Holy of Holies held the presence of God, while the Ark held the Isralites' rejection of God in the form of the smashed Ten Commandments, Aron's Rod, and the Manna from Heaven. God's presence would look down and see the rejection within, but when the priest's made the yearly sacrifice of a spotless lamb (meant to represent one free from sin), the blood of the sacrifice would cover the sins of the people for that year, and God would not see the sin, only the pure blood.
Now it is my understanding that the sacrifice made yearly is a foreshadowing of Christ's sacrifice, as the blood of the spotless lamb in the Old Testament covered the rejection of God by his chosen people, so does Christ's blood cover our sins today, except his sacrifice covers us for all time.
In another vein, Christ is also the High Priest within the Holy of Holies, acting as advocate for the chosen people of God. There are so many things that it is unreal. The fact that God made a covenant with Israel, just as Christ made a covenant with the whole world.
To me the whole coming of Christ makes sense. The Hebrews could not have accepted him as the Messiah at his first coming or it would have ended right there. They do speak of 2 messiahs, a peaceful one, and one who would rule with an iron rod, and who would vanquish the enemies of God's people. The fact that the Israelites were blinded by God so as to not recognize Christ as their messiah's first coming shows that God loves all, and wishes to bestow his grace upon the world.
Now, from the above paragraph you would think I was a believer. While I do believe in God, I also believe that Jesus Christ, and his death, was used by the disciples to keep control of the flock. Later restructuring of the Bible, such as the 2 Councils of Nicaea, were the church's way of further wresting control of the Catholic Church away from the various groups who held sway, especially the Gnostics. Through my years of study of other religions, and various Gnostic texts, I came to see that Christ wasn't saying what the church was saying that he was saying.
To me Christ was an enlightened individual who was attempting to show us the way to live in order to reach enlightenment ourselves, through peaceful means. I also believe he alluded to how we all have that divine spark within us, which makes sense when one looks at the way it has been said we create our own reality. I mean what if we are our own creators of our reality, and if enough people believe one way then there is a shift in the way things are. Example, people want to fly, and in recent years there have been reports of flying humanoids. Not saying that's the case, only that it makes me think.
Okay, now I am rambling. I was trying to get across, that yes I believe in God, but to me we are also a part of that same God, and we are just trying to return to that heavenly fold, full of experiences, to be with God. Plus I think Karmic Force, the Soul Matrix, reincarnation, and possibly even Soul Groups, works in there some where. /tongue.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='
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So, a lot of stuff here, with a lot more out there, but I am open to respectful discussion about mine, and others, beliefs concerning Christianity. I just hope the above was not too confusing, and that I didn't insult anybody, as that was not my intent.
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First off, I do not consider myself a Christian, and I am not here to discuss my own personal salvation. I only wish to discuss that which I have been taught growing up, and supposed personal revelations I came upon when I used to study the Bible. I take what the Bible says with a grain of salt, and follow a more personal journey than that stated in the Good Book, though I think there is some mixture of the original message within. I just think it has been diluted over the centuries since its inception. Not saying I am correct and others aren't. It is only what I believe. That being said, I have a question.
Question: What is meant when it is said that the Old Testament in the Bible foreshadows the New Testament?
Case in point: The Holy of Holies which housed the Ark of the Covenant. Basically the Holy of Holies held the presence of God, while the Ark held the Isralites' rejection of God in the form of the smashed Ten Commandments, Aron's Rod, and the Manna from Heaven. God's presence would look down and see the rejection within, but when the priest's made the yearly sacrifice of a spotless lamb (meant to represent one free from sin), the blood of the sacrifice would cover the sins of the people for that year, and God would not see the sin, only the pure blood.
Now it is my understanding that the sacrifice made yearly is a foreshadowing of Christ's sacrifice, as the blood of the spotless lamb in the Old Testament covered the rejection of God by his chosen people, so does Christ's blood cover our sins today, except his sacrifice covers us for all time.
In another vein, Christ is also the High Priest within the Holy of Holies, acting as advocate for the chosen people of God. There are so many things that it is unreal. The fact that God made a covenant with Israel, just as Christ made a covenant with the whole world.
To me the whole coming of Christ makes sense. The Hebrews could not have accepted him as the Messiah at his first coming or it would have ended right there. They do speak of 2 messiahs, a peaceful one, and one who would rule with an iron rod, and who would vanquish the enemies of God's people. The fact that the Israelites were blinded by God so as to not recognize Christ as their messiah's first coming shows that God loves all, and wishes to bestow his grace upon the world.
Now, from the above paragraph you would think I was a believer. While I do believe in God, I also believe that Jesus Christ, and his death, was used by the disciples to keep control of the flock. Later restructuring of the Bible, such as the 2 Councils of Nicaea, were the church's way of further wresting control of the Catholic Church away from the various groups who held sway, especially the Gnostics. Through my years of study of other religions, and various Gnostic texts, I came to see that Christ wasn't saying what the church was saying that he was saying.
To me Christ was an enlightened individual who was attempting to show us the way to live in order to reach enlightenment ourselves, through peaceful means. I also believe he alluded to how we all have that divine spark within us, which makes sense when one looks at the way it has been said we create our own reality. I mean what if we are our own creators of our reality, and if enough people believe one way then there is a shift in the way things are. Example, people want to fly, and in recent years there have been reports of flying humanoids. Not saying that's the case, only that it makes me think.
Okay, now I am rambling. I was trying to get across, that yes I believe in God, but to me we are also a part of that same God, and we are just trying to return to that heavenly fold, full of experiences, to be with God. Plus I think Karmic Force, the Soul Matrix, reincarnation, and possibly even Soul Groups, works in there some where.
/tongue.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='
So, a lot of stuff here, with a lot more out there, but I am open to respectful discussion about mine, and others, beliefs concerning Christianity. I just hope the above was not too confusing, and that I didn't insult anybody, as that was not my intent.
Thats a complex question Sithy..As I have my 2 year old on my lap, all I can say for now is that I will get back to you.
but quickly…the Old Testament pretty much is chock full of prophecies regarding the New. The Old Testament, to the Christians is Gods way of showing us the ways that would NOT work. Kind of His way of showing us in advance, so we wouldn't try and do them over and over again fruitlessly…
God used the foreshadowing to let the people know that He would send his own sacrifice. I mean, how could you possible trump an eternal sacrifice? By showing them the fruitlessness of their efforts, He made it more and more obvious that salvation could NOT come from sacrificing goats and lambs. Most scholars now believe that the OT is meant to be the foundation only.
Did that answer your basic question? Let me know! /biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='
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And to lighten things up, I would like to say poop.
Dubious of Christ's historicity, can someone provide texts that detail, his life, works, miracles, other than the bible, and concurrent with his life, not written years or centuries later? To educate me.
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Dubious of Christ's historicity, can someone provide texts that detail, his life, works, miracles, other than the bible, and concurrent with his life, not written years or centuries later? To educate me.
That seems as if it might be a question for a Biblical scholar.
That seems as if it might be a question for a Biblical scholar.
Are there none here? Actually what I'm looking for is a scholar in history, someone who might enlighten me as to my lack of knowledge concerning a concurrent perspective of Christ's life.
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for you Dawkins
for you Dawkins
Thanks for the link Heidi. Though reading it, I still need more education.
Interesting question. I found this on Wiki.
I've seen this and find it unsatisfying. What I would like to see is a historical corroboration of the resurrection and the correlating emptying of tombs and graves. One might think this was a rather notable event.
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I've seen this and find it unsatisfying. What I would like to see is a historical corroboration of the resurrection and the correlating emptying of tombs and graves. One might think this was a rather notable event.
So are you trying to say that you yourself have searched for this information and can't find it?
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I've seen this and find it unsatisfying. What I would like to see is a historical corroboration of the resurrection and the correlating emptying of tombs and graves. One might think this was a rather notable event.
The way I see it many Christians base their belief in the story of Christ on faith. The Bible says every man is apportioned his own measure of faith. So, either you have faith or you don't, and I have a feeling that the people who do have that amount of faith aren't worried to much about the history of it all.
I say more power to them! They have just as much right to believe what they want as the next person, without having to prove it to anyone.
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I've seen this and find it unsatisfying. What I would like to see is a historical corroboration of the resurrection and the correlating emptying of tombs and graves. One might think this was a rather notable event.
Written histories were a little hard to come by back then, which is why it took almost 800 years for the Greeks to write down the epic poems of Homer.
Such a sharp contrast to today's era, where a small multitude of reporters flock to the scene every time Paris Hilton scratches her butt.
Written histories were a little hard to come by back then, which is why it took almost 800 years for the Greeks to write down the epic poems of Homer.
Such a sharp contrast to today's era, where a small multitude of reporters flock to the scene every time Paris Hilton scratches her butt.
Or to Tony Romo dumping Jessica Simpson. Let me take another opportunity to offer my shoulder to Miss Jessica. I'm available 24/7.
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I've always been really curious about other books for the Bible not included – as can be found in the gnostic texts.
I've always been really curious about other books for the Bible not included – as can be found in the gnostic texts.
The books of the apocrypha are anti-canon, and can't be discussed. It is claimed they are of dubious authorship, but many would say the same of the book into which they might be included.
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I've always been really curious about other books for the Bible not included – as can be found in the gnostic texts.
Chad has read a lot of gnostic texts, and when we talk about them, they sound fascinating.
The way I see it many Christians base their belief in the story of Christ on faith. The Bible says every man is apportioned his own measure of faith. So, either you have faith or you don't, and I have a feeling that the people who do have that amount of faith aren't worried to much about the history of it all.
I say more power to them! They have just as much right to believe what they want as the next person, without having to prove it to anyone.
As long as that belief doesn't force me to believe the same. To legislate it, make it law, and punish it. I have no problem with belief, until the believers feel compelled to shove it down my throat, tell me how I might behave, whom I should have congress with, and it what manner. Which is exactly what is happening in our country right now.
How dare you?
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As long as that belief doesn't force me to believe the same. To legislate it, make it law, and punish it. I have no problem with belief, until the believers feel compelled to shove it down my throat, tell me how I might behave, whom I should have congress with, and it what manner. Which is exactly what is happening in our country right now.
How dare you?
I'm going to assume your "how dare you" was in general to those attempting to legislate morality and not to anyone in particular in our forum. Those who are believers here, I would suggest that they are believing and sharing those beliefs in constructive conversation without pushing anything on anyone else.
Here's the thing about righteous indignation. Who does it serve? How does it make the world – or in particular YOUR world a better place? You can be as angry as you want about this, but all it is doing is making you mad. That anger is possibly manifesting in your physiology in a way that doesn't serve your overall health and well-being.
….grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.
Pretty much says it all. And yes, I removed "God" from the first line just for you.
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I'm going to assume your "how dare you" was in general to those attempting to legislate morality and not to anyone in particular in our forum. Those who are believers here, I would suggest that they are believing and sharing those beliefs in constructive conversation without pushing anything on anyone else.
Here's the thing about righteous indignation. Who does it serve? How does it make the world – or in particular YOUR world a better place? You can be as angry as you want about this, but all it is doing is making you mad. That anger is possibly manifesting in your physiology in a way that doesn't serve your overall health and well-being.
….grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.
Pretty much says it all. And yes, I removed "God" from the first line just for you.
Definitely no one in this forum is shoving their religious beliefs down anyone's throat. I think we've all expressed our beliefs as just that, our own personal beliefs.
In general, whenever I'm pressed about my religious or political beliefs, I explain what I think and why, and if others think differently, so be it. We each have the control over whether we allow people to pressure us or not.
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