i'll readily agree that people are killed because of religion,

why is it so hard to agree that people have been killed in

the name of atheism? communism is a "government style"

not a religion. using that definition of "religion" every group

in the world that gathers for any reason what so ever is

a religion.

the definition i used is one from dictionary.com. i didn't make it up, it is what it is. my point, i guess, is that when any group is more intent on worshipping a diety, be it a god or the state, than the welfare of people, then atrocities are more acceptably dealt upon those who do not toe the line. extemists of any sort are the more dangerous amongst our species, imho.

i don't find it hard to agree that people have been killed for believing in god. i am not a freedom fighter for athiesm. /unsure.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> i don't know any of the answers any longer. i wish i did. i constantly slog thru the grey areas.

I guess when my grandmother was gassed in the camp, it had nothing to do with her religious views, or who she was.

I'm very surprised how people don't understand what happened.

i have studied the holocaust at great depth. i also have almost come to blows with holocaust deniers. one of the tragedies now is that many jewish kids who need bone-marrow transplants have trouble finding donors because of the almost eradication of european jews.

nazism was not atheistic. most nazis, included AH considered themselves christians. warped, yes. but they considered themselves to be that. germany saw itself as a christian nation. i am not making any judgement here re: chrisitanity; it's just the facts.

any murder of people over any ideology is wrong. my only point.

I agree Heidi, communism is a social structure not a religion.

This would be like the KKK, being a religion, not!

what do the KKK burn on lawns? garden gnomes? no. crosses. it doesn't matter how we see them, if they see it as religion, then it is.

Actually no garden gnome for me, it was a swastika on my house. To me my views on how I see things matter, just as your views are important to you, and I say this with respect to anyones views.

symp: whatever they burned on your lawn, it was an abhorent act. terrorism of any sort is abhorent and communities should not tolerate it. bullies are found in all aspects of society and are amongst the most pathetic of our species, imho.

i meant no disrespect to your grandmother's sacrifice nor yours. if it came across otherwise, then please accept my humble and sincere apology.

annie

Annie you need not apologize.

I appreciate that you did, but not much phases me. You did not come across that way at all to me.

I just speak out, and I enjoy other points of view and yours on the forum is a breath of fresh air.

But, I would of preferred a garden gnome, as I don't have one. /laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' />

So back to communism. /laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> I'm too lazy to quote. You mentioned communism and nazism in your other posts.

I think they are two seperate stuctures.

The two cow parodies for me work,

Communism- you have two cows, you give them to the government and the government sells you some milk.

Nazism- you have two cows and the government takes them and shoots you.

I never said these two were atheists actually I've never even thought it. Hilter and Goebbels were registered catholics offically for the record, even though they ceased to attend.They dabbled in mysticism and occultism.

They used in nazi propaganda christain, germanic, pagen, and roman symbolism. Protestants feared the nazi party for this use.

In my mind's eye the nazi could of been of any religion, or even atheism. Soe were even practicing jews.

But I think the religous beliefs, were seperate from the Nazi, and the state keeping records shows proof as who was registered under what faith.

I view all of this from a none religous view, I just like the history.

The relationship with communism and the catholic church, I've been reading about for years. I'm no expert, but it's complicated and very in deepth, imo.

Germany collects church tax and registers the members of the religions as a state affair.

Gryphon the meaness shall remain in check as long as we all remember our lessons

learned from Namaste. It's hard to be mean when you are recognizing the light radiated

from another beings soul. ……………..I can't believe I just typed that………

………..I need a vacation! /laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />