My only wubble with that is that one line. As long as it's understood that not every non-believer is not ready for belief. For some, like myself, it has nothing to do with being ready for belief, it has to do with something so completely going against my grain that I can't even fathom putting my faith in it. Readiness is not a factor for me, however, it may be a factor for some others.

Also, on the flip side of that, maybe some, and I say some, not all, believers just aren't ready for non-belief. It's a thought.

Ultimately, I agree, let the non-believers be non-believers and the believers be believers. If only it were that simple.

Born:

You may be like Christopher Hitchens in that he lacks any construction for belief.

Jesus said follow Me, He didn't say follow My people. People are awful creatures. A lot of them are Christians and are mean and cruel because well Christians are only human. God gave this Earth free will. And as long as there is evil in this world, evil things will happen, even to the most wonderfull people. We don't see the whole picture. I guess that is why we are asked to have faith. Even my faith hangs by a thread at times.

I like to look at a person by what kind of person they are and not what religion they have or have not. I would hate to miss out on meeting a wonderful person just because of what they believe or don't believe in.

My only wubble with that is that one line. As long as it's understood that not every non-believer is not ready for belief. For some, like myself, it has nothing to do with being ready for belief, it has to do with something so completely going against my grain that I can't even fathom putting my faith in it. Readiness is not a factor for me, however, it may be a factor for some others.

Also, on the flip side of that, maybe some, and I say some, not all, believers just aren't ready for non-belief. It's a thought.

Ultimately, I agree, let the non-believers be non-believers and the believers be believers. If only it were that simple.

And when I say not everyone is ready for belief I say it from the standpoint that personally I believe in reincarnation, and I am only coming at the question of belief from that perspective. And not knowing what came before, we in essence start with a clean slate as far as experiences are concerned. Again, this is all from my own perspective, it is my truth just as each person has their own truth.

I'm just glad we have a place where we can voice what we believe, hopefully free from attack. You don't find that everywhere.

That's all good and well, but what if you don't believe in a heaven or hell. I believe in God, it just differs in the fact that I see God in all of us. We are our own creators. We create ourselves, and our realities, thus we answer only to ourselves.

To me the belief in an afterlife offers hope. On the other hand, I also believe that not everyone is ready for belief. Confusing I know, then again I also believe in reincarnation, and think that we all go through these steps as we experience our various lives.

Let the non-believers be non-believers and the believers be believers. No skin off my back.

My only wubble with that is that one line. As long as it's understood that not every non-believer is not ready for belief. For some, like myself, it has nothing to do with being ready for belief, it has to do with something so completely going against my grain that I can't even fathom putting my faith in it. Readiness is not a factor for me, however, it may be a factor for some others.

Also, on the flip side of that, maybe some, and I say some, not all, believers just aren't ready for non-belief. It's a thought.

Ultimately, I agree, let the non-believers be non-believers and the believers be believers. If only it were that simple.

That's all good and well, but what if you don't believe in a heaven or hell. I believe in God, it just differs in the fact that I see God in all of us. We are our own creators. We create ourselves, and our realities, thus we answer only to ourselves.

To me the belief in an afterlife offers hope. On the other hand, I also believe that not everyone is ready for belief. Confusing I know, then again I also believe in reincarnation, and think that we all go through these steps as we experience our various lives.

Let the non-believers be non-believers and the believers be believers. No skin off my back.

Right on! Let everyone have their own personal journey without judgment and persecution from others.

I do love talking about religion (and any subject for that matter), as long as the discussion is respectful and doesn't include nonsense like "you are wrong or stupid for believing differently."

No toes stepped on, this theory is frequently something that is brought up. See for yourself:

Pascal's Wager

That's all good and well, but what if you don't believe in a heaven or hell. I believe in God, it just differs in the fact that I see God in all of us. We are our own creators. We create ourselves, and our realities, thus we answer only to ourselves.

To me the belief in an afterlife offers hope. On the other hand, I also believe that not everyone is ready for belief. Confusing I know, then again I also believe in reincarnation, and think that we all go through these steps as we experience our various lives.

Let the non-believers be non-believers and the believers be believers. No skin off my back.

Interesting comments.

To each his own I guess. Me, I choose to believe.

I think it's a logical decision. If I believe and it turns out that there isn't an almighty being. Well then I will just die like everyone else and that will be the end of it. If there is then everything will be wonderful.

So, if there is or there isn't a God, I have nothing to lose by believing.

However, what if the disbelievers are wrong and there is an almighty being?

OOPS, hope I didn't step on any toes.

No toes stepped on, this theory is frequently something that is brought up. See for yourself:

Pascal's Wager

To each his own I guess. Me, I choose to believe.

I think it's a logical decision. If I believe and it turns out that there isn't an almighty being. Well then I will just die like everyone else and that will be the end of it. If there is then everything will be wonderful.

So, if there is or there isn't a God, I have nothing to lose by believing.

However, what if the disbelievers are wrong and there is an almighty being? Where does that leave them?

OOPS, hope I didn't step on any toes.

I am older. If you're suggesting that as my demise nears, I might change my mind . . . Well I'd need something better than bronze-age fairy tales as evidence.

And that's always what it comes down to for me as well. Concrete proof for me is the only thing that would convince me of a deity. The old saying about atheists and foxholes is wearing a little thin, isn't it?

I am older. If you're suggesting that as my demise nears, I might change my mind . . . Well I'd need something better than bronze-age fairy tales as evidence.

Good luck to you... /blink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='B)' />

Hmmm....well reasoned? That may be expecting a bit much. /laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='B)' />

I touched on this in the proving God thread a little. I see things in our universe that are so innately intelligent that I feel there must be some intelligence that underlies its design. I use this as an example a lot, but I'll use it again. The Fibonacci sequence. To me that smacks of intelligence. The Zero point field. Evolution. Surely those things and more came about out of some underlying intelligence, whether you call it God or something else.

My conceptualization of God is that energy that underlies it all. Not a bearded guy in white who is involved in our day to day lives.

You are right. There is much that is messed up. Mostly human beings. As a species, we are brutal. We've created a fine mess for ourselves because we are not smart enough to get out of our own way. But to me, this doesn't necessarily count out an underlying intelligence or energy to the universe. It says more about human beings than the nature of God.

Yes, as a species we can be brutal. My feeling is it goes back to karma...but that's another story, lol

I applaud you scientific mind but as you become older maybe your views will change. (I hope so)

I am older. If you're suggesting that as my demise nears, I might change my mind . . . Well I'd need something better than bronze-age fairy tales as evidence.

Answer. Because there is no evidence for the existence of a deity.

I applaud you scientific mind but as you become older maybe your views will change. (I hope so)

No, I do not.

But I feel an attachment between you and I, a fondness with my fellow creatures. Isn't that enough?

I certainly think so, yes. As I say, while I have never entirely disbelieved, it has been a long time since I believed. But I've thought through the atheist argument, and if I slipped into disbelief, it certainly wouldn't change the connections I have.

Dawkins - I have a question for you.

Do you have any concept of an underlying intelligence in the universe?

If there is a God, this is my conceptualization of it. That intelligence which underlies the universe in all of its intracacy.

No, I do not.

But I feel an attachment between you and I, a fondness with my fellow creatures. Isn't that enough?