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Dawkins – I have a question for you.
Do you have any concept of an underlying intelligence in the universe?
If there is a God, this is my conceptualization of it. That intelligence which underlies the universe in all of its intracacy.
Whammies:
Considering the knife-edge we inhabit on our blue orb, I have to ask "What intelligence? Some design!" And it's getting worse which I'm sure you understand.
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Whammies:
Considering the knife-edge we inhabit on our blue orb, I have to ask "What intelligence? Some design!" And it's getting worse which I'm sure you understand.
Fair enough. Thanks for answering! /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='
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And now I hope for well-reasoned reply.
Hmmm….well reasoned? That may be expecting a bit much. /laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='
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I touched on this in the proving God thread a little. I see things in our universe that are so innately intelligent that I feel there must be some intelligence that underlies its design. I use this as an example a lot, but I'll use it again. The Fibonacci sequence. To me that smacks of intelligence. The Zero point field. Evolution. Surely those things and more came about out of some underlying intelligence, whether you call it God or something else.
My conceptualization of God is that energy that underlies it all. Not a bearded guy in white who is involved in our day to day lives.
You are right. There is much that is messed up. Mostly human beings. As a species, we are brutal. We've created a fine mess for ourselves because we are not smart enough to get out of our own way. But to me, this doesn't necessarily count out an underlying intelligence or energy to the universe. It says more about human beings than the nature of God.
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I'd like to also add that I've made no secret of wanting to believe in something. There is comfort for in believing that underneath our brutality and selfishness as a species, there is some kind of unconditional love out there and some unifying force that is pure. That may be my romanticism, but I'd love to be able to believe it.
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A persons religious conviction, such as my own, are only a summary of their
ability to process information that they themselves seek out. Life experiences
seem to play an even bigger role. It seems that the need to be a part of something
much more encompasses a majority of peoples lives.Why would so many people
seek the spiritual? How can I have faith in the face of so much evidence that runs
to the contrary? I have never been an unreasonable person. It is a gut feeling that I guess
makes me search on. Searching for that part of "something more". My faith is based ,for myself,
on the fact that I believe my soul is bigger than my current surroundings and that the things
I have seen can only be explained to my satisfaction through intelligent design. I can hope and
have faith that I am right because with that faith I soothe my worries and fears that I would cease
to be a part of all that I have witnessed.
I'd like to also add that I've made no secret of wanting to believe in something. There is comfort for in believing that underneath our brutality and selfishness as a species, there is some kind of unconditional love out there and some unifying force that is pure. That may be my romanticism, but I'd love to be able to believe it.
As I type this, I might offer an argument for unconditional love. It's complicated, far more than fiction but may make a provisional metaphor as to the idea.
Dawkins – I have a question for you.
Do you have any concept of an underlying intelligence in the universe?
If there is a God, this is my conceptualization of it. That intelligence which underlies the universe in all of its intracacy.
No, I do not.
But I feel an attachment between you and I, a fondness with my fellow creatures. Isn't that enough?
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No, I do not.
But I feel an attachment between you and I, a fondness with my fellow creatures. Isn't that enough?
I certainly think so, yes. As I say, while I have never entirely disbelieved, it has been a long time since I believed. But I've thought through the atheist argument, and if I slipped into disbelief, it certainly wouldn't change the connections I have.
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Answer. Because there is no evidence for the existence of a deity.
I applaud you scientific mind but as you become older maybe your views will change. (I hope so)
I applaud you scientific mind but as you become older maybe your views will change. (I hope so)
I am older. If you're suggesting that as my demise nears, I might change my mind . . . Well I'd need something better than bronze-age fairy tales as evidence.
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Hmmm….well reasoned? That may be expecting a bit much.
/laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='B)' />
I touched on this in the proving God thread a little. I see things in our universe that are so innately intelligent that I feel there must be some intelligence that underlies its design. I use this as an example a lot, but I'll use it again. The Fibonacci sequence. To me that smacks of intelligence. The Zero point field. Evolution. Surely those things and more came about out of some underlying intelligence, whether you call it God or something else.
My conceptualization of God is that energy that underlies it all. Not a bearded guy in white who is involved in our day to day lives.
You are right. There is much that is messed up. Mostly human beings. As a species, we are brutal. We've created a fine mess for ourselves because we are not smart enough to get out of our own way. But to me, this doesn't necessarily count out an underlying intelligence or energy to the universe. It says more about human beings than the nature of God.
Yes, as a species we can be brutal. My feeling is it goes back to karma…but that's another story, lol
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I am older. If you're suggesting that as my demise nears, I might change my mind . . . Well I'd need something better than bronze-age fairy tales as evidence.
Good luck to you… /blink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='B)' />
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I am older. If you're suggesting that as my demise nears, I might change my mind . . . Well I'd need something better than bronze-age fairy tales as evidence.
And that's always what it comes down to for me as well. Concrete proof for me is the only thing that would convince me of a deity. The old saying about atheists and foxholes is wearing a little thin, isn't it?
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Interesting comments.
To each his own I guess. Me, I choose to believe.
I think it's a logical decision. If I believe and it turns out that there isn't an almighty being. Well then I will just die like everyone else and that will be the end of it. If there is then everything will be wonderful.
So, if there is or there isn't a God, I have nothing to lose by believing.
However, what if the disbelievers are wrong and there is an almighty being? Where does that leave them?
OOPS, hope I didn't step on any toes.
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Interesting comments.
To each his own I guess. Me, I choose to believe.
I think it's a logical decision. If I believe and it turns out that there isn't an almighty being. Well then I will just die like everyone else and that will be the end of it. If there is then everything will be wonderful.
So, if there is or there isn't a God, I have nothing to lose by believing.
However, what if the disbelievers are wrong and there is an almighty being?
OOPS, hope I didn't step on any toes.
No toes stepped on, this theory is frequently something that is brought up. See for yourself:
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No toes stepped on, this theory is frequently something that is brought up. See for yourself:
That's all good and well, but what if you don't believe in a heaven or hell. I believe in God, it just differs in the fact that I see God in all of us. We are our own creators. We create ourselves, and our realities, thus we answer only to ourselves.
To me the belief in an afterlife offers hope. On the other hand, I also believe that not everyone is ready for belief. Confusing I know, then again I also believe in reincarnation, and think that we all go through these steps as we experience our various lives.
Let the non-believers be non-believers and the believers be believers. No skin off my back.
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That's all good and well, but what if you don't believe in a heaven or hell. I believe in God, it just differs in the fact that I see God in all of us. We are our own creators. We create ourselves, and our realities, thus we answer only to ourselves.
To me the belief in an afterlife offers hope. On the other hand, I also believe that not everyone is ready for belief. Confusing I know, then again I also believe in reincarnation, and think that we all go through these steps as we experience our various lives.
Let the non-believers be non-believers and the believers be believers. No skin off my back.
Right on! Let everyone have their own personal journey without judgment and persecution from others.
I do love talking about religion (and any subject for that matter), as long as the discussion is respectful and doesn't include nonsense like "you are wrong or stupid for believing differently."
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That's all good and well, but what if you don't believe in a heaven or hell. I believe in God, it just differs in the fact that I see God in all of us. We are our own creators. We create ourselves, and our realities, thus we answer only to ourselves.
To me the belief in an afterlife offers hope. On the other hand, I also believe that not everyone is ready for belief. Confusing I know, then again I also believe in reincarnation, and think that we all go through these steps as we experience our various lives.
Let the non-believers be non-believers and the believers be believers. No skin off my back.
My only wubble with that is that one line. As long as it's understood that not every non-believer is not ready for belief. For some, like myself, it has nothing to do with being ready for belief, it has to do with something so completely going against my grain that I can't even fathom putting my faith in it. Readiness is not a factor for me, however, it may be a factor for some others.
Also, on the flip side of that, maybe some, and I say some, not all, believers just aren't ready for non-belief. It's a thought.
Ultimately, I agree, let the non-believers be non-believers and the believers be believers. If only it were that simple.
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My only wubble with that is that one line. As long as it's understood that not every non-believer is not ready for belief. For some, like myself, it has nothing to do with being ready for belief, it has to do with something so completely going against my grain that I can't even fathom putting my faith in it. Readiness is not a factor for me, however, it may be a factor for some others.
Also, on the flip side of that, maybe some, and I say some, not all, believers just aren't ready for non-belief. It's a thought.
Ultimately, I agree, let the non-believers be non-believers and the believers be believers. If only it were that simple.
And when I say not everyone is ready for belief I say it from the standpoint that personally I believe in reincarnation, and I am only coming at the question of belief from that perspective. And not knowing what came before, we in essence start with a clean slate as far as experiences are concerned. Again, this is all from my own perspective, it is my truth just as each person has their own truth.
I'm just glad we have a place where we can voice what we believe, hopefully free from attack. You don't find that everywhere.
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