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Past Life or Genetic Memories?
December 9, 2010
10:41 pm PDT
JJB-54
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I started investigating Genetic – DNA memories after an 'unsolicited' "PLR" (Past Life Reading) was given to my wife.

Now can one prove "Past Lives" or "Genetic Memories"?

Let me present two and I do have more cases …..

 

Case One:

 

My wife a few years back was seeing an acupuncturist .. and she gave my wife an UN-asked for 'PL Reading'. It seemed the dialog got onto my wife's 'fear of putting her head in/under water'.

 

Well it seemed in a 'recent past life' my wife drowned in a river. But my wife told her to stop, that I would like to hear this story. So I came to the next session and she finished her reading. She described the river, the location (Oregon) and that family watched and it was very detailed. (I was actually impressed, at the specifics.)

 

Well I had been working on the "genetic memory" theory for some time and this was not the first clue of it I had come across. But this was also the most detailed proof I had come across. I was honestly impressed and told the 'reader' this.

 

See my wife's mom is a genealogist. She has my wife's side of the family traced now back to the early 800's . Yes I said 800's.

 

But what the woman 'read' was exactly how my wife's g-g-grandmother died! Down to the very last detail. Now the thing is, her family watched as a 'flash flood' caught her while swimming in a river in Oregon. Her g-g-grandfather and their children all watched this in horror as it was happening. The g'g'grandfather even recorded the event in his journal and wrote a poem for her memorial service. So it was very well documented.

 

Well the reader I think was impressed too. So I asked, "Isn't it true, that you cannot be a direct parentage in a past life?" The answer was yes, this is "not allowed". I've also had this confirmed by other "PL" believers and readers.

 

 

Case Two:

 

I was in a dialog on-line with a few friends. One of them was 22 or so at the time. He was always complaining that his thumb and index and middle finger started hurting 'a lot' over the past 6 months. He went to the doctor and nothing could be found as to the why. He told us a PL-Reader had told him that he apparently lost those in a past life.

 

So I had a friend that I trusted if he would "read" this friend. He agreed and so did the 22 yr old. He stated, "it's sympathy pains. that a fishing accident had happened and a "grandparent' (not sure the generation) lost these in a fishing accident. That they were caught in a 'net accident'. That a close friend was involved in this accident." Well at the point, the kid just went, "NFW!! His grandfather that recently died, had lost his thumb and 2 fingers. (But he had not put it together..) So we encouraged him to talk w/his grandmother.

 

So he did and his grandmother just asked, "How did you find out?" Apparently his grandfather was indeed involved in an accident, by the very nature of the word. But the friend took this so hard, that his g'father promised that NO ONE WOULD EVER TALK ABOUT THIS! Not his wife, not him and that this would stay between just them. It was never discussed. His g'father actually told the one and only apparent lie in his life about this accident, to exclude his friend from it. Plus it happen, the accident after his 21st b'day. No one knew about the "Friend Equation" in the accident except the 3 of them. That was it!

 

Now this kid lived in Norway as did his family. My friend (Reader) lives in the USA along the Pacific Coast Line. So there was no way my friend could even begin to know about the "friend equation". Not to mention the 22 yr old went by a "Screen-name" so that even made identity harder.

 

Now I can tell you other stories where "PL's" were later found out with little to some effort to be actually "genetic memories" or "genetic events" from direct ancestor events, passed down genetically.

 

Remember these sayings?

 

"You look just like, (ancestor)."

"Your (ancestor) liked doing (sports/hobby/interest)."

"Your (ancestor) also was an accountant. <-- Another 'thing' from my wife's past. Based on actual genealogy records.

 

Also my son, though he does not look like my wife's father in any way, shape, or form. Is very much like his g'father in personality, humor and patience. He is very much his grandfather's grandson.

I think you get the idea.

 

So now the question need be asked: PL? Genetic Memory/Event?

 

I bet you'd find this in your genetic-ancestral past. Just a curious bet.

- Jj -



If you want me to take you seriously, then give me something serious to take.
December 10, 2010
1:21 am PDT
Jilla08
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JJB- you are quickly becoming a favorite of mine on here /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Laugh' /> Years ago, my mom and I were discussing PL's- I had been going to a therapist who specialized in spirituality, PLR & dream therapy. I was going because of a long series of reoccurring dreams and dreams that would pick up where the last one left off. I never wanted her to do a PL reading on me, because, honestly, I don't believe in past lives. However, I did toy with the idea. It was during this therapy and discussing it with my mom that my mom brought up dreams, feelings and memories she had that she never actually experienced- often that uber deja-vu feeling. My mom then started telling me a theory of hers she'd been thinking about for years- the idea that memories could be genetically passed down. She felt deep in her gut that what she was experiencing or remembering were things that had occurred specifically to people on her father's side.

I thought her theory was phenomenal, and a year went by when an article was written about this same topic. I wish I remembered the source- all I remember was emailing it to my mom.

Your research is phenomenal. I absolutely think you're on the right path. I'd love to hear more about your findings!

December 10, 2010
3:13 am PDT
FalseMotivation
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Very interesting, I've never been one for the past life belief (I'm not 100% in disbelief…but nothing has caught my eye about it) but genetic memory has always been something I've found as a fascinating idea.

"Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."


- T. Roosevelt-


December 10, 2010
8:05 pm PDT
Michelle Pillow
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Interesting info. I looked into past life regressions at one point, but not genetic memory. I think I'll do more reading into it. Thanks for sharing.

I write books. I take pictures.



I sometimes try to tap into my Jedi powers.

~Michelle Pillow Author Website~

The Raven Books



April 14, 2011
1:50 am PDT
sensitive touch
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How about you all help me out. I have read past lives before, am I reading a past life or am I just seeing things that are connected to their life now. One thing that interests me is I hear names from way back and I see objects that are connected with the name and things the person has done. I am no history buff so when I see these names I have no clue about them. But when I look up the name it all falls in place with the time and place and it matches the persons life now. Some of these names I spell them the way I am told and when I look them up they are spelled right to. So please let me know how this can be if I have no knowledge of the name and the place. Thanks St

April 14, 2011
3:45 am PDT
JJB-54
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How about you all help me out. I have read past lives before, am I reading a past life or am I just seeing things that are connected to their life now. One thing that interests me is I hear names from way back and I see objects that are connected with the name and things the person has done. I am no history buff so when I see these names I have no clue about them. But when I look up the name it all falls in place with the time and place and it matches the persons life now. Some of these names I spell them the way I am told and when I look them up they are spelled right to. So please let me know how this can be if I have no knowledge of the name and the place. Thanks St

Well it's become obvious to most the readers of my threads on this topic, that I just simply do not buy into it. No matter how you 'spin' it – from "getting something right" – "Karma" – "Experiences" – "Betterment" … since it is painfully obvious no one even semi-sorta-kinda-maybe even remembers slightly when or even IF they had one … Talk about "BLIND" … It's like one poster in another thread put it ….

Even in college, when you take test – at least you know what you got wrong so you can study and be better prepared for the next test. Not so with this – you get all the tests – but you never know what you got right – wrong or experienced .. so that … you can move on. As another posted in that same forum said, "Talk about a 'crap shoot'!"

So I would suggest, based on my own research and experiences that have confirmed this -> It is a pretty safe answer that it's their genetic past or even present.

See I told one reader – "WRONG! When they told me I was a native American chief." … Well low and behold, I have 2 Native American Chief's in my family tree – actually I think I've found 2 more in another branch. /ohmy.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' /> Then I have Civil War Vets – Britain – Sweden – German – Russian – Spanish – Roman – Greeks – Norwegian – Scandinavian – all in various branches of my tree. The thing is – most everyone, please not I did not say "EVERYONE" .. .but "Most Everyone" has a very diversified genealogy – genetic background.

There could be politicians – writters – artists – 'bad dudes/dudettes' – common folk – royality – servants there .. in fact I would be more surprised if that was not the case.

As the reading my wife got – (her fear) to the kid w/the thumb pain, that just "happened to start" at the same age as his grandfather's accident and "no power of suggestion" … to art talents, fav foods – drinks, quirks …

Well I think you get the point. As to more specific than that – It is a 'case-by-case' situation.

Plus you have to ask -> Are you seeing the Far Past – Near Past – Present or Future? How is that for mudding the water???? /wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

- Jj -



If you want me to take you seriously, then give me something serious to take.
April 14, 2011
8:31 pm PDT
KuriusKat
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I very much believe that memories can be carried genetically, just as personality traits and physical appearance are, and I believe that they can explain 99.99% of so-called past life memories.

But… there are those cases that just cannot be explained by genetic memory. For example, Dr. Ian Stevenson documented many cases where children had very detailed memories of their past life. They remembered their name, where they lived, the names of family members and their relationship to them, their occupation, etc. Dr. Stevenson reported many cases where the child's memory was accurate down to the smallest detail. For example, one little girl remembered many details of her past life, including her name and her parents, etc. She vividly remembered dying in the back seat of the car as she was being driven to the hospital and described the dress she was wearing at the time. When she was reunited with her parents from that time, she asked them about the dress. It was still hanging in a closet because the family couldn't bear to throw away their daughter's favorite dress. She recognized it immediately and was overjoyed to see it again.

Some of these children had been members of their family before, but most were not related in any way to their previous family. How can someone inherit a genetic memory from someone they are not descended from? These children also had vivid memories of dying. Not just how they died, but the actual death experience, complete with emotions and sensations. How can a death experience be passed on genetically? Knowledge of a death, yes. But the actual memory of dying?

Dr. Stevenson became aware of some of these cases while serving as Chairman of the Psychiatric Department at the University of Virginia. After studying a few, he gave up his position as Chairman to research reincarnation cases full time. He was able to document many cases in the 40 years he spent researching the topic and collected his findings in several books. The most interesting cases to me involve children who carried physical marks from past-life injuries, such as birthmarks and birth defects. Most of these were associated with fatal injuries.

I personally find many of these cases to be very compelling evidence that reincarnation does happen and I recommend his books to anyone who has an interest in the subject. Research on reincarnation continues at UVA today and they continue to find cases that are strong evidence that some people have lived before.

These cases also offer an explanation for why we don't remember past lives. Children with these memories still have a very strong emotional attachment to people from their past life and beg to be returned to their "real" families. How can we focus on our current life if we are still emotionally tied to our past ones?

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I just want to point out that there is some pretty compelling evidence out there.

On the other hand, I personally have zero faith in past life readings. No offense, ST. /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':blink:' />

April 14, 2011
8:56 pm PDT
JJB-54
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I very much believe that memories can be carried genetically, just as personality traits and physical appearance are, and I believe that they can explain 99.99% of so-called past life memories.

But… there are those cases that just cannot be explained by genetic memory. For example, Dr. Ian Stevenson documented many cases where children had very detailed memories of their past life. They remembered their name, where they lived, the names of family members and their relationship to them, their occupation, etc. Dr. Stevenson reported many cases where the child's memory was accurate down to the smallest detail. For example, one little girl remembered many details of her past life, including her name and her parents, etc. She vividly remembered dying in the back seat of the car as she was being driven to the hospital and described the dress she was wearing at the time. When she was reunited with her parents from that time, she asked them about the dress. It was still hanging in a closet because the family couldn't bear to throw away their daughter's favorite dress. She recognized it immediately and was overjoyed to see it again.

Some of these children had been members of their family before, but most were not related in any way to their previous family. How can someone inherit a genetic memory from someone they are not descended from? These children also had vivid memories of dying. Not just how they died, but the actual death experience, complete with emotions and sensations. How can a death experience be passed on genetically? Knowledge of a death, yes. But the actual memory of dying?

Dr. Stevenson became aware of some of these cases while serving as Chairman of the Psychiatric Department at the University of Virginia. After studying a few, he gave up his position as Chairman to research reincarnation cases full time. He was able to document many cases in the 40 years he spent researching the topic and collected his findings in several books. The most interesting cases to me involve children who carried physical marks from past-life injuries, such as birthmarks and birth defects. Most of these were associated with fatal injuries.

I personally find many of these cases to be very compelling evidence that reincarnation does happen and I recommend his books to anyone who has an interest in the subject. Research on reincarnation continues at UVA today and they continue to find cases that are strong evidence that some people have lived before.

These cases also offer an explanation for why we don't remember past lives. Children with these memories still have a very strong emotional attachment to people from their past life and beg to be returned to their "real" families. How can we focus on our current life if we are still emotionally tied to our past ones?

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I just want to point out that there is some pretty compelling evidence out there.

On the other hand, I personally have zero faith in past life readings. No offense, ST. /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':blink:' />

I read that Dr. S. and other "Reincarnation" investigators and I began to see: "TUNNEL VISION"

Now here is my "Open Mind" …

Did they investigate the possibility of an Empathic Imprint?

What? …. well I read many years ago of a child that knew events of his 'grandmother' – very specific details that she simply could not know … Well obviously not "reincarnation" because grandma was still alive at the time.

BTW – These events were not talked about, because it had to do with her childhood and was 'small things' – 'memories' that as her granddaughter brought it up, G'ma, went, "OMG, child. How did you know that? I forgot all about that, it was so long ago!" But the detail was in the family words, "Frighteningly accurate."

Did they check out a possible Psychic Connection?

See in most of the cases – and I totally understand that time – money and such is not availble … but the focal point of most (not all) of these Reincarnation Investigations were very limited and Tunnel Visioned. They did not look at other possible connections.

I mean .. there are other possible/probable metaphysical – Psi answers … If indeed an investigation is going to be done … you don't go looking for what is called "Proof Texting" …. at the cost of other answers. To be objective, you have to be objective and open to Empathic Imprint or various Psychic Connnections or various Genetic/Psi connections ….

Sorry to muddy the water.

- Jj -



If you want me to take you seriously, then give me something serious to take.
April 14, 2011
10:08 pm PDT
KuriusKat
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I read that Dr. S. and other "Reincarnation" investigators and I began to see: "TUNNEL VISION"

Now here is my "Open Mind" …

Did they investigate the possibility of an Empathic Imprint?

What? …. well I read many years ago of a child that knew events of his 'grandmother' – very specific details that she simply could not know … Well obviously not "reincarnation" because grandma was still alive at the time.

BTW – These events were not talked about, because it had to do with her childhood and was 'small things' – 'memories' that as her granddaughter brought it up, G'ma, went, "OMG, child. How did you know that? I forgot all about that, it was so long ago!" But the detail was in the family words, "Frighteningly accurate."

Did they check out a possible Psychic Connection?

See in most of the cases – and I totally understand that time – money and such is not availble … but the focal point of most (not all) of these Reincarnation Investigations were very limited and Tunnel Visioned. They did not look at other possible connections.

I mean .. there are other possible/probable metaphysical – Psi answers … If indeed an investigation is going to be done … you don't go looking for what is called "Proof Texting" …. at the cost of other answers. To be objective, you have to be objective and open to Empathic Imprint or various Psychic Connnections or various Genetic/Psi connections ….

Sorry to muddy the water.

You're not muddying the waters at all. All of these theories are very interesting.

The reason that I find Dr. Stevenson's research more convincing than most is his background. He graduated at the very top of his class from med school (#1) and became very interested in psychosomatic illness. He then studied psychiatry and he was obviously an expert since he became Chairman of the Psychiatric Department. I like the fact that he was not only an experienced doctor, but also a trained psychiatrist. He would be very aware not only of physical conditions that might explain these cases but also of any psychiatric issues. You always have to suspect the parents of everything from subconsciously encouraging false memories in these children to outright coaching. His background gave him the skills to examine these families to determine what, if anything, they had to gain either financially or emotionally from these stories before pursuing them.

He was a very well respected psychiatrist and his research methodology was never questioned when he was researching within mainstream psychiatry, so I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to his reincarnation studies as well. As the head of a department at a major university, I assume that he was very familiar with the proper protocols for conducting research. I have never read anything that indicates that he was tunnel visioned in his approach. I rather got the impression that he was like most scientific types and started out trying to prove that these cases were explainable. When he was unable to find any other explanation for them, he accepted the evidence, got interested in the subject and carried on from there.

He discounted and disproved many, many cases and excluded any cases that he could find any possible alternate explanation for. He was fortunate enough to be well funded and his team had the capability of doing a lot of research, so I tend to believe that any connections between the people involved would have been uncovered. I don't know how you could determine if there was a psychic connection between strangers, especially when one of them is dead, but a genetic connection would be easy to discover. I'm not quite clear on how there could be an empathic imprint on a child from a stranger who had died before he or she was born, but I'm willing to be convinced.

I am aware of the concept of empathic imprint and psychic connection and I can easily see how those could explain a case where there was any kind of connection between the old life and the new or between any of the people involved. I don't understand how they can explain situations involving people with no connections of any kind. No links through family, friends, jobs or even geographic location. There's also the time separation from the death until the time the child can communicate clearly to consider. In my mind, that makes it less likely that the child would have any knowledge of the deceased.

Just for the record, I automatically discount any cases where there is any connection at all because of the mere possibility that information was available to the child.

Some of these cases though are baffling to me. How can a child born far away from the place where a completely unconnected person lived and died have all of these incredibly accurate memories of the life of that stranger? Why do these cases always involve sudden and often violent deaths? Why is there a fairly stable time period between death and rebirth (about 14 months)? I don't have any answers but I sure do have a lot of questions. /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

April 14, 2011
10:38 pm PDT
JJB-54
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You're not muddying the waters at all. All of these theories are very interesting.

The reason that I find Dr. Stevenson's research more convincing than most is his background. He graduated at the very top of his class from med school (#1) and became very interested in psychosomatic illness. He then studied psychiatry and he was obviously an expert since he became Chairman of the Psychiatric Department. I like the fact that he was not only an experienced doctor, but also a trained psychiatrist. He would be very aware not only of physical conditions that might explain these cases but also of any psychiatric issues. You always have to suspect the parents of everything from subconsciously encouraging false memories in these children to outright coaching. His background gave him the skills to examine these families to determine what, if anything, they had to gain either financially or emotionally from these stories before pursuing them.

He was a very well respected psychiatrist and his research methodology was never questioned when he was researching within mainstream psychiatry, so I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt when it comes to his reincarnation studies as well. As the head of a department at a major university, I assume that he was very familiar with the proper protocols for conducting research. I have never read anything that indicates that he was tunnel visioned in his approach. I rather got the impression that he was like most scientific types and started out trying to prove that these cases were explainable. When he was unable to find any other explanation for them, he accepted the evidence, got interested in the subject and carried on from there.

He discounted and disproved many, many cases and excluded any cases that he could find any possible alternate explanation for. He was fortunate enough to be well funded and his team had the capability of doing a lot of research, so I tend to believe that any connections between the people involved would have been uncovered. I don't know how you could determine if there was a psychic connection between strangers, especially when one of them is dead, but a genetic connection would be easy to discover. I'm not quite clear on how there could be an empathic imprint on a child from a stranger who had died before he or she was born, but I'm willing to be convinced.

I am aware of the concept of empathic imprint and psychic connection and I can easily see how those could explain a case where there was any kind of connection between the old life and the new or between any of the people involved. I don't understand how they can explain situations involving people with no connections of any kind. No links through family, friends, jobs or even geographic location. There's also the time separation from the death until the time the child can communicate clearly to consider. In my mind, that makes it less likely that the child would have any knowledge of the deceased.

Just for the record, I automatically discount any cases where there is any connection at all because of the mere possibility that information was available to the child.

Some of these cases though are baffling to me. How can a child born far away from the place where a completely unconnected person lived and died have all of these incredibly accurate memories of the life of that stranger? Why do these cases always involve sudden and often violent deaths? Why is there a fairly stable time period between death and rebirth (about 14 months)? I don't have any answers but I sure do have a lot of questions. /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

Well if one (I'm not sure what your experience is with authentic Empaths) but they do not need any 'audio-visual' clues. In fact actually for most authentic Empaths the audio and visual actually creates doubt and second-guessing, for obvious reasons.

Child Empaths – the one's that I have had experiences with are amazing …

I had a picture of my wife (in my wallet) and I was aware of where she was – Sears w/my daughter shopping. I showed the picture, that was it and it was a picture when she was younger, first few years after we were married. This child said, "She is shopping with your daughter. They are laughing right now because of some clothes they are looking at." (I noted the time.) --> Now yes, I do realize that this is based on living -with- living …. I totally understand and except this argument.

When my wife got home, I asked her if at the time noted, she and our daughter were laughing at some clothes? She went, "Well yes that would be about the right time. Why?"

I explained what the little child had said and done and I also called the parents to let them know.

Now I am also aware of children – like the above w/their grandmother who told events of none related families = strangers.

The point is – w/children and the younger they are the less 'second guessing' they are apt to go through … if given even slight 'trigger words' and just a word or two .. can go into amazing detail. They just need the "Focal Point".

My hypothesis is – Is there a chance at the child's birth and/or at a various "key" time in their life that a very strong emotional 'gathering' of the other person took place. The emotions and such were just close enough to the child's own genetic make up … that he/she could 'pick it up'? <- I understand I would be sore pressed to validate this .. thus HYPOTHESIS.

- Jj -



If you want me to take you seriously, then give me something serious to take.
April 14, 2011
11:05 pm PDT
KuriusKat
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Well if one (I'm not sure what your experience is with authentic Empaths) but they do not need any 'audio-visual' clues. In fact actually for most authentic Empaths the audio and visual actually creates doubt and second-guessing, for obvious reasons.

Child Empaths – the one's that I have had experiences with are amazing …

I had a picture of my wife (in my wallet) and I was aware of where she was – Sears w/my daughter shopping. I showed the picture, that was it and it was a picture when she was younger, first few years after we were married. This child said, "She is shopping with your daughter. They are laughing right now because of some clothes they are looking at." (I noted the time.) --> Now yes, I do realize that this is based on living -with- living …. I totally understand and except this argument.

When my wife got home, I asked her if at the time noted, she and our daughter were laughing at some clothes? She went, "Well yes that would be about the right time. Why?"

I explained what the little child had said and done and I also called the parents to let them know.

Now I am also aware of children – like the above w/their grandmother who told events of none related families = strangers.

The point is – w/children and the younger they are the less 'second guessing' they are apt to go through … if given even slight 'trigger words' and just a word or two .. can go into amazing detail. They just need the "Focal Point".

My hypothesis is – Is there a chance at the child's birth and/or at a various "key" time in their life that a very strong emotional 'gathering' of the other person took place. The emotions and such were just close enough to the child's own genetic make up … that he/she could 'pick it up'? <- I understand I would be sore pressed to validate this .. thus HYPOTHESIS.

Hey, I am all about hypotheses. I love them! IMHO it's way more fun to speculate about what may be possible than it is to try to prove something that is basically impossible to prove. /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

Your idea about a child's birth date intersecting with an important emotional time for a dead person is very interesting. I don't know how we'd prove that either, but it is definitely worth thinking about. It would be very interesting to go through those case files and check the dates, wouldn't it? I wonder how that would work given the geographic distance between them and the fact that they were not connected in any way but I'm certainly willing to speculate about it.

I take your point about children being able to take a trigger word and run with it. They certainly can have active imaginations. /laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Laugh' /> They will also perform for praise. What I mean is they will keep on making stuff up if they are encouraged to do so. I tend to believe that an experienced psychiatrist would be very alert to that kind of behavior, though. It's Dr. Stevenson's expertise in psychiatry that make me more willing to accept his findings. That's just my opinion, of course.

My understanding is that he only dealt with cases where he was convinced that there was genuine recall with no padding. Another thing I like about his cases is that none of them involved hypnosis. I'm very skeptical of information retrieved through hypnosis, especially in this area. There is just WAY too much chance that the witness has been led in a certain direction or even had false memories implanted by the one doing the hypnosis. That can happen even when there is no intention to do it, so I'm very leery. I'm sure you are, too.

I'm impressed with your little empath. Of course, a skeptic could argue that there's always a good chance that a woman is shopping. /laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Laugh' /> I'm just kidding. I really am impressed. Did you have any more experiences with her? I'm curious about one thing, though. Why do you call her an empath instead of a psychic? I thought an empath is someone who can feel other people's emotions. I guess I'm not clear on the difference between the two.

April 14, 2011
11:17 pm PDT
JJB-54
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Hey, I am all about hypotheses. I love them! IMHO it's way more fun to speculate about what may be possible than it is to try to prove something that is basically impossible to prove. /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

Your idea about a child's birth date intersecting with an important emotional time for a dead person is very interesting. I don't know how we'd prove that either, but it is definitely worth thinking about. It would be very interesting to go through those case files and check the dates, wouldn't it? I wonder how that would work given the geographic distance between them and the fact that they were not connected in any way but I'm certainly willing to speculate about it.

I take your point about children being able to take a trigger word and run with it. They certainly can have active imaginations. /laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Laugh' /> They will also perform for praise. What I mean is they will keep on making stuff up if they are encouraged to do so. I tend to believe that an experienced psychiatrist would be very alert to that kind of behavior, though. It's Dr. Stevenson's expertise in psychiatry that make me more willing to accept his findings. That's just my opinion, of course.

My understanding is that he only dealt with cases where he was convinced that there was genuine recall with no padding. Another thing I like about his cases is that none of them involved hypnosis. I'm very skeptical of information retrieved through hypnosis, especially in this area. There is just WAY too much chance that the witness has been led in a certain direction or even had false memories implanted by the one doing the hypnosis. That can happen even when there is no intention to do it, so I'm very leery. I'm sure you are, too.

I'm impressed with your little empath. Of course, a skeptic could argue that there's always a good chance that a woman is shopping. /laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Laugh' /> I'm just kidding. I really am impressed. Did you have any more experiences with her? I'm curious about one thing, though. Why do you call her an empath instead of a psychic? I thought an empath is someone who can feel other people's emotions. I guess I'm not clear on the difference between the two.

That was a Typo – I was thinking in and on Empath and yes – it should have been Psi.

Yes the child is amazing and very 'mater of fact'.

Basically with me – hypothesis are just that and I don't 'sell' or 'present more' then it is. But also I love a good mystery. My nature is – when and if at all possible – FIND THE ANSWER! Does not mean we can always explain the answer … but getting there is part of the fun! (For me.)

- Jj -



If you want me to take you seriously, then give me something serious to take.
April 15, 2011
12:13 am PDT
KuriusKat
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That was a Typo – I was thinking in and on Empath and yes – it should have been Psi.

Yes the child is amazing and very 'mater of fact'.

Basically with me – hypothesis are just that and I don't 'sell' or 'present more' then it is. But also I love a good mystery. My nature is – when and if at all possible – FIND THE ANSWER! Does not mean we can always explain the answer … but getting there is part of the fun! (For me.)

I'd love to find the answers, too, but it seems the more I search for them the more I find out how many things have no answer. But you're right; getting there is half the fun.

IMHO, it's the people who step outside the box and come up with new ideas that are likely to find the answers. We don't seem to be getting very far with the theories we have now, so I say speculate, speculate, speculate. /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> Every breakthrough starts out as a hypothesis, right?

Children are amazing, aren't they? One of my nieces once told us that she could hear a baby crying. She was only 3 or 4, but she was so upset by it that she was crying herself. None of us could hear the baby, but she dragged me outside and pointed at a spot on the ground and told me that's where the crying was coming from. That gave me a huge chill, needless to say. We were visiting the house where my dad was raised, so I went in and asked him if there was anyone buried on the property. He told me that his mother had miscarried very early on in a pregnancy and they had buried the baby in the yard. When he pointed to the spot, I was horrified. It was exactly the spot my niece had pointed out. I have no idea how she knew because there was absolutely no mark on the ground, but it was very upsetting. I still get sad thinking about it. We had to take my niece to get ice cream to distract her. She never mentioned it again, thank goodness.

She was always doing things like that. She once told my husband that she used to be scared of the man in my parent's house, but she wasn't anymore. My husband asked her what man and she said the man with the scary eyes. /blink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Laugh' /> None of us ever talked about the ghost in our house because we didn't want the girls to be scared, so that was a real puzzler. That was when she was about 5. She was very psychic when she was small, but it seems to be passing away as she gets older. Her older sister on the other hand seems to be gaining sensitivity. Why? Just one more question I don't have the answer to.

I got way off track here, didn't I? Sorry. I do that a lot. /wub.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Laugh' />

April 15, 2011
4:59 am PDT
sensitive touch
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Hi again, Boy the info that is out there is amazing. All I am asking is in a read I came up with 4 things and they were Hindu, Secret Society, the year 1149, Shotkana was shown to me it looked like the star of david. Where I am I getting this info. I have no education on none of this but it matches for the time and info. I know I am still learning everything but to me I just can't pull this out of my hat. Thanks guys St

April 15, 2011
2:22 pm PDT
milomilford
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Very interesting discussion folks! So much to think about and so much more to be studied and hopefully explained someday.

April 15, 2011
2:37 pm PDT
KuriusKat
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Very interesting discussion folks! So much to think about and so much more to be studied and hopefully explained someday.

Wouldn't explanations be great???

JJB raised an interesting point about Stevenson's studies when he asked if he had considered other psi explanations. I did a little research and I found a statement in one of his articles that indicates that he did.

"The children subjects of these cases, however, never show paranormal powers of the magnitude required to explain the apparent memories"

Apparently, he checked these kids for psychic ability as well as possible alternate sources of knowledge regarding the deceased. Very interesting. It certainly makes you think, doesn't it?

April 15, 2011
2:42 pm PDT
milomilford
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Wouldn't explanations be great???

JJB raised an interesting point about Stevenson's studies when he asked if he had considered other psi explanations. I did a little research and I found a statement in one of his articles that indicates that he did.

"The children subjects of these cases, however, never show paranormal powers of the magnitude required to explain the apparent memories"

Apparently, he checked these kids for psychic ability as well as possible alternate sources of knowledge regarding the deceased. Very interesting. It certainly makes you think, doesn't it?

Yes it does! Being "a bear of little brain", I'm glad that the smart people of the world are studying this stuff /rolleyes.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

April 15, 2011
3:04 pm PDT
KuriusKat
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Yes it does! Being "a bear of little brain", I'm glad that the smart people of the world are studying this stuff /rolleyes.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

Not enough smart people, unfortunately.

The stigma of studying psi pretty much kills the career of even the most respected scientist. Plus, the big money is in military and pharma research, so even when paranormal departments exist at universities, they are underfunded and not respected. Even the Rhine Institute at Duke, considered to be one of the best, operates out of a little old house instead of a nice new research lab. On the other hand, you should see the biomedical building. Shiny new equipment in a shiny new building – the best of everything. There's even a room that operates like a holodeck. It cost the earth and there are only a few in the world. Meanwhile, Rhine operates on a shoestring budget. It's so depressing. Until psi gets some respect we'll never find the answers we seek. /sad.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

April 15, 2011
3:21 pm PDT
milomilford
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Not enough smart people, unfortunately.

The stigma of studying psi pretty much kills the career of even the most respected scientist. Plus, the big money is in military and pharma research, so even when paranormal departments exist at universities, they are underfunded and not respected. Even the Rhine Institute at Duke, considered to be one of the best, operates out of a little old house instead of a nice new research lab. On the other hand, you should see the biomedical building. Shiny new equipment in a shiny new building – the best of everything. There's even a room that operates like a holodeck. It cost the earth and there are only a few in the world. Meanwhile, Rhine operates on a shoestring budget. It's so depressing. Until psi gets some respect we'll never find the answers we seek. /sad.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

I think there may actually be research going on but its kept quiet (shhh, have you seen the movie The Men Who Stare at Goats?). Seriously though I am sure the military Psy-Ops folks are doing research all the time. It probably won't be used for the common good though.

April 15, 2011
3:33 pm PDT
JJB-54
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Wouldn't explanations be great???

JJB raised an interesting point about Stevenson's studies when he asked if he had considered other psi explanations. I did a little research and I found a statement in one of his articles that indicates that he did.

"The children subjects of these cases, however, never show paranormal powers of the magnitude required to explain the apparent memories"

Apparently, he checked these kids for psychic ability as well as possible alternate sources of knowledge regarding the deceased. Very interesting. It certainly makes you think, doesn't it?

I saw this too and went, "HUH? what and how did they, well ask or measure this in the kid?" I found nothing? I mean if they just asked questions … how did they phrase it?

Now understand I'm not saying the doctor is "bad" … but what is his view, say on Empaths? What is his view on Psi? (I could find nothing, at the moment.) What is his view on the possible hypothesis on Imprinting? Did he do a genetic Genealogy Background Check. Ya, it's time consuming and you would likely have to hire and Expert in Genealogy Research. A good one would take about 2-4 months to get a good foundation trail started.

See with one U of Wash. prof. that I actually talked privately about this statement, he went, "That is our way of saying, We are not and did not go there, for many various reasons." He was not all that familiar with the guys work. It was more the statement and then I had to ask, "Is this a generic statement?" It is possible.

- Jj -



If you want me to take you seriously, then give me something serious to take.
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