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Paranormal Media as a whole and what can they do to improve the image of the community as a whole.
Since there was some talk about the new T.A.P.S. season I thought I would start the thread to encompass all media. I will start with T.A.P.S. but would like people to chime in on their thoughts on all TV shows, paid investigations, groups that promote these events, etc. Don't be shy but no need to get nasty. Be honest, even bluntly honest but factual. Anyone can rant about things they don't like. I have many times. I am looking for real feelings put in a way as if you were telling the group you are criticizing. I have my reasons for this other than trying to stir debate.
Here are my thoughts on the new TAPS season thread.
I think that some people forget that T.A.P.S. are Ghost Hunters by their own admission and do not represent real paranormal investigators in any respect. Are things on their show faked? Without a doubt some of the things they call evidence are clearly faked or purposefully misleading to a trained eye. In their defense I might have to say that they may not be aware of all the trickery at the onset.
To mention a couple. The Eastern Penitentiary episode is an obvious trick and if you look close you can see the persons legs when the “entity” turns to run away. The coat pulls, the moving objects in episodes, etc. are all suspect. There is one where a picture frame on a table moves. What they don’t mention is why the camera is trained on the picture frame in the first place or why when it moves does Grant step aside when he accidently walks in front of the camera so you can see it move more? Enough said on that. There are too many episodes to even mention.
The show is entertaining in some respects and is geared towards the thrill seeker or amateur Ghost Hunter. The show will do what is necessary to keep it going as would any TV show. I don’t think it has a strong enough influence on the serious side of the paranormal community to even worry about. Although there are people on both sides of the T.A.P.S. argument that feel quite strongly one way or the other.
I think the T.A.P.S. debate will last as long as the show. Besides, the debate keeps both sides watching. I think the people who want to expose them and their blind faith fans will keep them in the money for a while.
Now on to Most Haunted, Ghost Adventures, Paranormal State, the conventions, paid tourist investigations & their promoters, etc.
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I just think the tv show Ghost Hunters, is a tv show and nothing more.
I feel the rest of paranormal shows, or all paranormal shows are entertainment, and nothing else.
Retakes of scenes, editing and so forth would not be proper protocol of how a real investiagtion should be conducted.
Too much interference, imo. With GA, three guys filming themselves, they still have to stop, do retakes and editing.
No one is perfect, there would be bloopers and such, and we would see them on all the shows, but don't.
It's obvious, the evp explanations are edited in. I like GA, for it's entertainment value.
Maybe it's just me, but I can't compare these shows to real life, or a real paranormal investigation.
Tv, is not real life, and I find reality tv shows are unrealistic.
It's about advertising dollars and ratings.
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GB, I think you are spot on about Ghost Hunters. I think they do indeed encounter paranormal activity during their quest but it has become a situation where it is hard to discern what is actual activity because of what is embellished or concocted. The guys from Ghost Adventures have more integrity and seem more genuine in their searches and if they have faked something I haven't noticed it yet. I'm still not sure on the flying brick however. I don't like the sources they take their results to, to be analyzed, because they seem like often they are not what I would call a professional lab or organization.
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I believe any paranormal show on TV is suspect. They have to have ratings and you don't get ratings watching paint dry. If anything you have to give them credit on getting the paranormal topic into the mainstream. Before all the shows were on, it was almost taboo to speak about ghosts and stuff. People would consider you mentally ill or something. Now it's nothing to talk to friends or even strangers about ghosts.
If anything we need to thank them for this. Now people are reporting more haunted houses and buildings. There are more places that charge people for tours and events. I don't have a problem with this as a whole. If they didn't make money, then it's a good bet the place would close and no one would have access.
For the general public they have been a blessing but with real paranormal investigators knowing that stuff is faked and manipulated they can be a black eye. But as long as the public believes in them then they will believe in us and give us cases and opportunities to investigate.
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I believe any paranormal show on TV is suspect. They have to have ratings and you don't get ratings watching paint dry. If anything you have to give them credit on getting the paranormal topic into the mainstream. Before all the shows were on, it was almost taboo to speak about ghosts and stuff. People would consider you mentally ill or something. Now it's nothing to talk to friends or even strangers about ghosts.
If anything we need to thank them for this. Now people are reporting more haunted houses and buildings. There are more places that charge people for tours and events. I don't have a problem with this as a whole. If they didn't make money, then it's a good bet the place would close and no one would have access.
For the general public they have been a blessing but with real paranormal investigators knowing that stuff is faked and manipulated they can be a black eye. But as long as the public believes in them then they will believe in us and give us cases and opportunities to investigate.
Case in point, I recently received an email from Fort Delaware, actually from Delware State Parks, which the Fort is part of, on camping opportunities. I have camped at some of their parks in the past, so I get email updates of specials and such…well, Fort Delaware has expanded their ghost hunting tours, and opened up a special time and date for people to come in with equipment to investigate the Fort for a fee. I've said this before about the Fort, and nothing against the place, but I feel the Fort personnel were smart enough to see this cash cow opportunity when the team that will not be named came in to investigate it twice….and saw the potential to earn dollars from this opportunity….
Here is the guts of the email:
Featured Program!
Candlelight Ghost Tours at Fort Delaware
September 11, 12 , 25, and 26
6 p.m. and 8 p.m.
Camp at Lums Pond State Park
Join Delmarva's favorite ghost host, Ed Okonowicz, for fun and spooky tales about the most haunted areas of Fort Delaware! Take a tour, then share your own ghost stories around a campfire at nearby Lums Pond State Park's campground -- if you're not too scared, that is! Make your camping and tour reservations now -- our tours sell out fast!
Special heads-up just for our email subscribers: Serious ghost hunters will be invited to fire up their EMF meters this fall and participate in real paranormal investigations of Fort Delaware! The fort has been investigated on Syfy's Ghost Hunters and The Travel Channel's Most Haunted, and now it's your turn -- investigation dates will be announced soon on our website!
I do not know the cost of this special tour, I did do the candlelight ghost tour in October 2008, a few weeks before Collargate, and that alone was I beleive $20 bucks a head for 2 hours which about 40 minutes of that was ferry time…
Conclusion, the air time definitely benefited Fort Delaware. I am not faulting them on this, but they wre smart enough to capitalize on their fame…
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And with parks and historical sites I don't see a problem. They need funding with the current economy and all. It would be a real shame if parks and places like this had to close down due to lack of funding. This is our history that we would be losing.
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And with parks and historical sites I don't see a problem. They need funding with the current economy and all. It would be a real shame if parks and places like this had to close down due to lack of funding. This is our history that we would be losing.
I agree. However, I always got a sneaky suspicion that personnel at the Fort manipulated some of the "results" from these investigations. When we did our tour, one of the staff had hid himself on the island the whole time, and fired one of those cannons at a precise time to match one of the story tellings….as soon as that happened, I wondered when the team that will not be mentioned, did their first investigation, and heard cannon fire, I have a gut feeling that was done on purpose, but the instance was used as paranormal fodder for said team….
So, is that wrong to do? Who knows….however, i do want to go back to the Fort during the day to see their live reinactments of Fort life back in the day. Paranormal can take a backseat while history can be focused on….
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I agree. However, I always got a sneaky suspicion that personnel at the Fort manipulated some of the "results" from these investigations. When we did our tour, one of the staff had hid himself on the island the whole time, and fired one of those cannons at a precise time to match one of the story tellings….as soon as that happened, I wondered when the team that will not be mentioned, did their first investigation, and heard cannon fire, I have a gut feeling that was done on purpose, but the instance was used as paranormal fodder for said team….
So, is that wrong to do? Who knows….however, i do want to go back to the Fort during the day to see their live reinactments of Fort life back in the day. Paranormal can take a backseat while history can be focused on….
This is not an isolated incident. There is an equally famous location that housed children in the past. It's been on TV and a video made etc. (I won't mention any names) I know of a person who personally did a little investigating on her own by breaking away from her group unnoticed. She found staff in various places hiding in order to make noises, etc. while people were recording and doing their investigation. I am sure it happens in many other places that charge.
I would have to agree with the post on historical places charging. It is a good way to try and keep in the black and good places for people to practice in safety.
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But stuff like that is not for the serious investigators, That's for folks who want an exciting or scary evening and then go home to their homes where they feel safe. For us that live and breathe this stuff, it takes away from the experience and we think it's cheesy. At no time do I think any evidence collected during these tours to be credible or uncontaminated.
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But stuff like that is not for the serious investigators, That's for folks who want an exciting or scary evening and then go home to their homes where they feel safe. For us that live and breathe this stuff, it takes away from the experience and we think it's cheesy. At no time do I think any evidence collected during these tours to be credible or uncontaminated.
So when you do your own investigations, how do you rule out that no one is "hiding" in the places you go? Do you scout out the area before you start to determine there is no one there? Just curious, as I always wondered about that. I've never did a real investigation, the group here in my area is sorta a joke, as I requested to join, but never got an answer. I think they are not that organized….
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Residential houses are always easier since they are smaller. Yeah we do do a search of the house when we do the initial EMF sweep. As for stuff like when we were at the Myrtles, we had to really debunk or analyze the stuff we found.
Places that advertise having ghost hunts I'd take any evidence with a grain of salt. If you can't control the environment then you can't control the evidence collection.
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Residential houses are always easier since they are smaller. Yeah we do do a search of the house when we do the initial EMF sweep. As for stuff like when we were at the Myrtles, we had to really debunk or analyze the stuff we found.
Places that advertise having ghost hunts I'd take any evidence with a grain of salt. If you can't control the environment then you can't control the evidence collection.
Thanks Ryan. At Fort Delaware, you defintely can not control the environment. There are so many hiding places, its not funny. Somethign else that bothers me is misinformed people. When I did the candle light tour, I had my trusty kodak digital with me, snapping off shots here and there, and the guide was so misguided and enthusied over shots that showed orbs when it was obvious it was dust. My camera does a pre-flash before the actual picture, and you could see the dust flying in this pre-flash with the naked eye. He had some on the tour so convinced they were "ghost" orbs….
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So when you do your own investigations, how do you rule out that no one is "hiding" in the places you go? Do you scout out the area before you start to determine there is no one there? Just curious, as I always wondered about that. I've never did a real investigation, the group here in my area is sorta a joke, as I requested to join, but never got an answer. I think they are not that organized….
Don't worry about never doing a real investigation. Most people haven't regardless of what they say. Most are ghost hunters.
Ghost Hunters do exactly what the term implies. They hunt locations looking for clues that might indicate the presence of paranormal activity.
A Paranormal Investigator uses an accumulation of those clues to determine whether or not a formal investigation is warranted or investigates a location with documented incidents of possible paranormal activity.
So, to answer your question. A true investigation is not a few hours, in the dark, taking photos and video hoping to catch the money shot. That's ghost hunting and can be a lot of fun and sometimes rewarding.
An investigation is long and involved with lots of paperwork, interviews, etc. Besides photos, video and audio. They begin always during the day to become familiar with the surroundings but will eventually focus in a time frame relating to the witnessed incidents. Simply put, if the incidents have been witnessed in the afternoon then you wouldn't focus your investigation at night with the lights out. That's for TV. Also, an actual Paranormal Investigator can be involved in all aspects relating to the paranormal unlike a ghost hunter.
Oh, and don't be disappointed in not hearing back from one group. There could be many reasons. They may be new at it and not sure about taking on others. Just look for another group that fits what you want to do. If you are new, learn to ghost hunt and then move on from there.
Well, that's my 2 cents anyway.
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Careful now. You are all posting on the site of a paranormal media group…. /unsure.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />
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Why worry about remaining on topic now? /wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />
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Careful now. You are all posting on the site of a paranormal media group….
/unsure.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':blink:' />
I assume you mean because I got off topic? If so you are absolutely right. I am sorry. Sometimes people ask questions relating to another post and the answers slowly get off topic as they go along. It started back several responses. I apologize and you may delete my post if you like as I don't see a delete button to do it myself.
Oh, or do you mean I stepped on someones toes here by what I said? I only spoke the truth…
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I assume you mean because I got off topic? If so you are absolutely right. I am sorry. Sometimes people ask questions relating to another post and the answers slowly get off topic as they go along. It started back several responses. I apologize and you may delete my post if you like as I don't see a delete button to do it myself.
Oh, or do you mean I stepped on someones toes here by what I said? I only spoke the truth…
I don't think you've stepped on any toes. I think it started with Gene and myself. It was directed to all. We'll get back on topic now.
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I don't think you've stepped on any toes. I think it started with Gene and myself. It was directed to all. We'll get back on topic now.
I hope not. I do tend to speak my mind but try to stay within the rules. I appreciate the the reminder and the rules were one of the big draws for me to join the site. I will try and steer any other responses back on topic if I can.
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As to the topic of trickery in "haunted" locations, I agree it is way to easy for investigations (on tv or not) to be contaminated.
I remember reading years ago about this subject regarding Richard Felix, former historian on Most Haunted. He is the owner of Derby Gaol and holds "ghost hunts" there several times a year. Most Haunted did investigations there. While conducting a tour through a very historic location (pardon me if I can't remember the name of the castle) a door leading to a concealed walkway was broken by one of his staff who was hiding in wait to scare the unsuspecting tourists. Big stink since craftsmanship from the past to the present is vastly different. It did nothing to uplift his credibility.
I know this is tying two topics together but I hope my point comes across. Paranormal Media and serious Paranormal Investigation are as vastly different as the aforementioned craftsmanship. IMO.
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True and since the shows are heavily edited we don't know what all happens during the opening tour, the setup, the majority of the investigation and so on. Numerous people have pointed out inconsistencies with different shows where stuff moved during takes. So to make a long story short, we have no clue what actually happens during the show's investigation and we shouldn't expect perfect results.
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