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Karen "will" receive full credit for the idea….pass or fail! LOL
First I have to determine a power drain hotspot! /laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='
' />
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Karen, I'd do the experiment with the static cam dedicated to the sensors. Have the times set exactly the same for everything and watch what happens. This I don't think will be a one nighter. I don't imagine having a major battery drain occur in 12 hours so this might be a long time experiment that could last weeks.
Has anyone thought about maybe some sort of natural magnetic field reeking havoc with batteries. There are places like the Bermuda Triangle and others like the one near the Great Lakes that can affect compasses and other sensors. Could some place like this be able to cause battery drain.
Carolyn, next time you go out on the battlefield, take a compass and see it works or is affected in anyway please.
I still don't believe in battery drain since I have never seen it but I must leave a possibility of it. Saying otherwise would be akin to saying kangaroos don't exist since I have never seen one.
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Ryan, the hotel where I work is on the battlefield – Day One. I don't have a compass, but I will procure one and do as you requested (at work and on my many visits to the battlefield).
Carolyn
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Carolyn,
We have to start somewhere. When those starting points are shown as invalid or useless
then it's time to regroup and try again. I don't believe the limits are on our comprehension of
entities capabilities but on the current science and methods available for our investigations. The whole
purpose of these discussions is to exchange ideas and information thatmay spark an idea that could lead
to a valuable breakthrough that would benefit us all. This particular thread has me searching for a way to
power my fluke meter in such a way as to measure and record power drain in given areas.
We are all just looking for answers. I hope we are not limiting ourselves in any way.
Jon K.
Absolutely right Jon, we have to start somewhere. Contrary to what anyone else might think, we're not looking for absolute proof, we're just looking for correlations of phenomena that people have reported experiencing during paranormal encounters. Can we prove that a battery draining on it's own is proof of anything? Nada, too hard to isolate and control all of the variables. We're just trying to get some ideas on what we're even looking for. If an unused 6V alkaline lantern battery with a 5 year shelf life suddenly drops a volt when attached to a high-impedance meter (infinitesimal current drain), it will at least be suspicious. If other "activity" is detected at the same time, it will at least give us enough to start designing other experiments.
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Cool, thanks. A compass is also considered a cheap EMF detector. I am very interested to see your results on this.
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Karen "will" receive full credit for the idea….pass or fail! LOL
First I have to determine a power drain hotspot!
/laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='
Karen doesn't care about credit. It is a collaborative exercise. /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='
' /> I'm loving everyone's input on this!
Hmmm…maybe we should stay there instead of at the other place, Jim. That way we can work the experiment for four days instead of just the one night. I'll have to see if we can get that rental over the whole period of time.
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So what I am hearing everyone saying is that battery drain is worth testing under carefully observed conditions???
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Carolyn,
We have to start somewhere. When those starting points are shown as invalid or useless
then it's time to regroup and try again. I don't believe the limits are on our comprehension of
entities capabilities but on the current science and methods available for our investigations. The whole
purpose of these discussions is to exchange ideas and information thatmay spark an idea that could lead
to a valuable breakthrough that would benefit us all. This particular thread has me searching for a way to
power my fluke meter in such a way as to measure and record power drain in given areas.
We are all just looking for answers. I hope we are not limiting ourselves in any way.
Jon K.
Did you mean that personal experiences are shown to be invalid? Or battery drain? Which starting points are invalid? Somewhere I got lost. /laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='
' /> It's very common – I get lost a lot.
We do have to start somewhere, but as I think I've mentioned in numerous blogs and threads, I think personal experience is where we start. We go from there and try and find the science, don't you think? If someone has experienced repeated battery drain – I have, and it sounds like Carolyn has, as well – that then becomes what we go and try and recreate.
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Did you mean that personal experiences are shown to be invalid? Or battery drain? Which starting points are invalid? Somewhere I got lost.
/laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='
We do have to start somewhere, but as I think I've mentioned in numerous blogs and threads, I think personal experience is where we start. We go from there and try and find the science, don't you think? If someone has experienced repeated battery drain – I have, and it sounds like Carolyn has, as well – that then becomes what we go and try and recreate.
Of course we start with personal experience. The way we search, methods and equipment
are the only things that are subject to change as we discover what we are doing right….or
wrong. I in no way believe personal experience to be invalid. Sorry if I came across that way.
It was not my intention. Instead of invalid or useless I should have said inaccurate and or unreliable.
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Did you mean that personal experiences are shown to be invalid? Or battery drain? Which starting points are invalid? Somewhere I got lost.
/laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='
We do have to start somewhere, but as I think I've mentioned in numerous blogs and threads, I think personal experience is where we start. We go from there and try and find the science, don't you think? If someone has experienced repeated battery drain – I have, and it sounds like Carolyn has, as well – that then becomes what we go and try and recreate.
Also I am going to use my Fluke meter this evening for something beside diagnosing
my Jeeps bad wiring. I am going to set it to read milivolts across a 2 inch space between
the leads. I figure in this way ( I am probably way wrong ) I'll be able to detect a spike
or a drain at the meter. I believe I'll be reading water vapor as well but that reading should
be steady. I'll tell everyone how it went tomorrow afternoon. If a drain starts to occur I will
do my level best to capture it on my cameras DVR.
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Of course we start with personal experience. The way we search, methods and equipment
are the only things that are subject to change as we discover what we are doing right….or
wrong. I in no way believe personal experience to be invalid. Sorry if I came across that way.
It was not my intention. Instead of invalid or useless I should have said inaccurate and or unreliable.
Yep – I would agree that the recall and reporting of personal experience can be unreliable.
As Chad alluded to in another post somewhere else on the boards (you'll have to play where's Waldo to figure out where!), Loyd Auerbach (watch for the podcast in early July)may have provided us with a reason for some of the unreliability of reporting when it comes to personal experience.
Setting aside the foibles of human perception and memory for a moment….according to Loyd, the experience of an entity is purely a psychic experience because entities are pure consciousness. So depending on if you are open to such experiences and how you process them, your experience of an entity may be different from someone who is standing right next to you.
There are several ways that people process psychic information – and different people process it differently. I think they are clairaudience (hearing), clairvoyance (seeing), empathy (emotional feeling), mind to mind contact and one other that I can't remember what it is called – but essentially it is related to the sense of touch and feeling. So – if that is the case and an experience with an apparition happens – if you are clairaudient and I am clairvoyant – I may see something, while you hear it. If the third guy with us is none of those things, then he may experience nothing.
Following this theory, then, the manipulation of objects – like draining a battery, recording an EVP, spiking an EMF, etc., would be accomplished by psychokinesis involving the actual manipulation of the instrument by the consciousness that is the apparition. So – I wonder if somewhere in here, you could take the theory suggested above by Loyd Auerbach and then posit why, as Carolyn suggested, a battery could possibly drain temporarily and then restore itself.
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It seems like we all agree that the personal experience should not be completely disregarded and that equipment tests, etc., might help quantify these personal experiences.
I really think that Loyd Auerbach has many interesting things to say about "the paranormal," as Chad and Karen pointed out. Personal experience is personal by nature. But … I think it's a valuable piece of the puzzle.
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Yep – I would agree that the recall and reporting of personal experience can be unreliable.
As Chad alluded to in another post somewhere else on the boards (you'll have to play where's Waldo to figure out where!), Loyd Auerbach (watch for the podcast in early July)may have provided us with a reason for some of the unreliability of reporting when it comes to personal experience.
Setting aside the foibles of human perception and memory for a moment….according to Loyd, the experience of an entity is purely a psychic experience because entities are pure consciousness. So depending on if you are open to such experiences and how you process them, your experience of an entity may be different from someone who is standing right next to you.
There are several ways that people process psychic information – and different people process it differently. I think they are clairaudience (hearing), clairvoyance (seeing), empathy (emotional feeling), mind to mind contact and one other that I can't remember what it is called – but essentially it is related to the sense of touch and feeling. So – if that is the case and an experience with an apparition happens – if you are clairaudient and I am clairvoyant – I may see something, while you hear it. If the third guy with us is none of those things, then he may experience nothing.
Following this theory, then, the manipulation of objects – like draining a battery, recording an EVP, spiking an EMF, etc., would be accomplished by psychokinesis involving the actual manipulation of the instrument by the consciousness that is the apparition. So – I wonder if somewhere in here, you could take the theory suggested above by Loyd Auerbach and then posit why, as Carolyn suggested, a battery could possibly drain temporarily and then restore itself.
But having spiritual bodies ourselves, then are not all the wide range of psychic abilities available to all?
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It seems like we all agree that the personal experience should not be completely disregarded and that equipment tests, etc., might help quantify these personal experiences.
I really think that Loyd Auerbach has many interesting things to say about "the paranormal," as Chad and Karen pointed out. Personal experience is personal by nature. But … I think it's a valuable piece of the puzzle.
Yes, the personal experience is important, but some people require more proof than others to believe. Never having experienced anything that I can say for sure is paranormal, I still believe.
Must be the spiritual side of me.
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Yes, the personal experience is important, but some people require more proof than others to believe. Never having experienced anything that I can say for sure is paranormal, I still believe.
Must be the spiritual side of me.
Is that anything like "the softer side of Sears"?
I'm in the same boat, Chad. Never had anything more than the occasional episode of Deja Vu. I just know enough people who have, despite knowing that they'd look silly admitting it, to think it's worth looking at. I remain firmly in the "open-minded skepnostic" camp. Besides, I love me some gadgets.
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Carolyn,
We have to start somewhere. When those starting points are shown as invalid or useless
then it's time to regroup and try again. I don't believe the limits are on our comprehension of
entities capabilities but on the current science and methods available for our investigations. The whole
purpose of these discussions is to exchange ideas and information thatmay spark an idea that could lead
to a valuable breakthrough that would benefit us all. This particular thread has me searching for a way to
power my fluke meter in such a way as to measure and record power drain in given areas.
We are all just looking for answers. I hope we are not limiting ourselves in any way.
Jon K.
To those who believe, it is not always an issue of evidence. We need to take in the full scope of those involved, believer, skeptic, and skeptical believer, and realize that all opinions on the matter are valid.
I personally respect the work Carolyn and others have done, skeptic or believer. We just need to remember that those who already believe have their proof through their experiences, or in my case through my heartfelt convictions, and need nothing further. A scientific search for proof is necessary for some, but not for others. Many people don't need it; they just believe.
As for limits, there are none as long as we all keep an open mind.
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We just need to remember that those who already believe have their proof through their experiences, or in my case through my heartfelt convictions, and need nothing further.
Just as personal experiences are different for each person, what constitutes proof that the soul continues on after physical death is different for each person.
I don't need a gadget or science to tell me that is so. I believe based on many other factors.
However, I still think that it is worthwhile to see researchers using equipment to investigate. Chad, it's like when you got the jump in temperature at the same time as the EMF spikes at Villisca when there was no electricity present in the house or close to the house. Sure, we don't know what caused those two things to happen at the same time, but it is worth the research to find out.
Will proof of the afterlife ever be quantifiable? I think it will be, and that it's only a matter of time. Science is about constant discovering after all.
But, until then, I think all different types of investigations are needed … technical, psychic, lots of analysis, personal experience. It all matters. /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />
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But having spiritual bodies ourselves, then are not all the wide range of psychic abilities available to all?
I don't know the answer to this, Chad. Everything I have read says that people are typically attuned to one or a few. Some all. I don't know if it is a matter of focus and attention or something else.
Maybe it is like learning – you know how some people learn best by reading about something, others by hearing about it and others by manipulating and interacting? Maybe psychic powers are the same type of thing? Don't know for sure – just floating a hypothesis.
_____________________Rapid Subject Change_______________________
So something Carolyn said sparked a conversation Jim and I were having. She was talking about how the battery drain is often a temporary condition. I thought about that all day yesterday as I worked at my "real" job – freelancing (fortunately it didn't worm its way into any articles).
Anyway – Jim and I were talking about that as he was getting a fishbowl sized margarita under his belt (the kids are away for the week, and he'd had a really rough day at work). Jim suggested that maybe we only THINK it is battery drain, but really what it is is an entity acting on the instrument with the battery in it. The effect is so transient that when we change the battery it is gone.
If, as was suggested by Loyd Auerbach, the way that entities interact with instruments like cameras and digital voice recorders is by having a psychokinetic effect on them, then perhaps what we see and interpret as battery drain is merely either a) a temporary drawing of power associated with psychokinesis or b ) a temporary effect on the instrument that shows as battery drain (because when I've had battery drain, I get the flashing low battery sign).
How could we differentiate and test these things? I guess first by ruling out that a battery is actually draining?
One of the things that would be really interesting is to see how many instruments have recorded something unusual – like an EVP, a strange image, a spike, etc., either immediately prior to or immediately after a "battery drain" incident.
There are just too many incidents where it happens to people, as Carolyn suggested, in order to dismiss that there is something happening.
Maybe the faulty assumption is that the batteries are draining. Maybe something else is happening that just looks like battery drain.
Thoughts?
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Very interesting Karen. I think what you're saying is definitely a possibility. It would explain why a battery-operated piece of equipment would fail and then resume working again later.
hmmmm … how do you test that?
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You and Jyb should drink Margaritas more often! That is a very interesting direction you've taken on this subject.
I'm trying to show you I'm here! Can't see me? What if I get in here and tamper with your equipment? NO! Its not low battery! ITS ME STUPID!!!!!
How about a locked off control area where supposed activity happens…with all said technology watching?
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