Ha, ha crazy can be good as long as everyone's crazy. Since I actually invited folks to call me crazy it was really inevitable (or inevitabar as Whammies says). I'll have to find the thread to see which show it was. I'll let you know. /rolleyes.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':blink:' />

Hmmm. One might say that a person who invites other people to call her crazy is, well, crazy. I personally think the term "crazy" should be used only in it's proper technical sense to describe people who are truly barking mad, like me. Not just everyone deserves that label, you know. You have to EARN it, wannabe. /laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

Let me know when you figure out what episode of GH it is and I will brace myself to watch it. I haven't been able to summon up the nerve so far this season. I've been holding out for when I have the flu and am in a weakened condition. I figure it's the right time to watch them, since I can't feel any worse than I already do. /tongue.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':huh:' />

Why oh why are people so cruel to each other? No one should ever call you crazy, that's just mean. Nuts, maybe, but not crazy. It's important to be civil, you know. /laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

I've got all of this season's GH's on DVR but I haven't watched them yet. When I do, I'll let you know if I liked that episode too. Then we can be crazy together or tactfully agree to disagree. Which episode was it, by the way? Maybe I'll watch it tonight just to see. /tongue.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':huh:' />

Ha, ha crazy can be good as long as everyone's crazy. Since I actually invited folks to call me crazy it was really inevitable (or inevitabar as Whammies says). I'll have to find the thread to see which show it was. I'll let you know. /rolleyes.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':blink:' />

Very true, one must be prepared for the inevitable. Heck, I wrote on one thread: "Call me crazy, but I actually enjoyed tonights episode of GH..." imagine my shock and dismay when I was actually called "crazy"! /wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':blink:' />

I'm working on the thick skin thing, getting there slowly but surely.

Why oh why are people so cruel to each other? No one should ever call you crazy, that's just mean. Nuts, maybe, but not crazy. It's important to be civil, you know. /laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

I've got all of this season's GH's on DVR but I haven't watched them yet. When I do, I'll let you know if I liked that episode too. Then we can be crazy together or tactfully agree to disagree. Which episode was it, by the way? Maybe I'll watch it tonight just to see. /tongue.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':huh:' />

Its pretty much a given that if you put something out on a public discussion forum, you will get other people's opinions whether you ask for them or not. Everything here is open to discussion whether it be in agreement or opposition to one point of view. It is the nature of the beast. There is no reason for the back and forth. No one is right. No one is wrong.

Very true, one must be prepared for the inevitable. Heck, I wrote on one thread: "Call me crazy, but I actually enjoyed tonights episode of GH..." imagine my shock and dismay when I was actually called "crazy"! /wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':blink:' />

I'm working on the thick skin thing, getting there slowly but surely.

If it is an actual, serious investigation then the team is doing a terrible disservice if they sugarcoat the findings just to make the client happy by telling them what they want to hear. There is no good that can come from this, IMO. Now, for me, I believe that it is imperative to share your findings in a professional and gracious manner. If I was a client, I would not want to be talked down to but rather treated respectfully, even if my claims may have seemed silly to the investigator. As the client, I may have experienced real fear because of my experience and it wouldn't be helpful to just PROVE to me that it's not paranormal. I think that if someone chooses to become an investigator then there is inherent responsibility to be diplomatic when dealing with people who are already vulnerable and seeking assistance. I understand that the scientific mind may not automatically think about this side of it but IMO the way in which you deliver the information is just as important as the information itself.

Now JJ, if someone COMES to you (and is aware of your normal straightforward, pull no punches manner), then they won't be surprised when you question and dismantle their theory or experience because they are already aware and have agreed to your process. In those specific cases, I think it is fine to "tell 'em how it is".

I think that its important to have the good communication skills to interact in a healthy, helpful manner with potentially vulnerable people (even on an anonymous, public forum like this one). I would suggest refraining from immediately dissecting their claims unless you give them a chance to know your process and double checking with them to see if they really want to hear the possibly "hard truth". It's only fair to know what they are signing up for.

With all that said (sorry if I sound like an old windbag here), the great thing about a forum like this is that there are so many threads that one probably already exists that will suit a members needs. Some are more appropriate when looking for ideas and input and some are simply for sharing ideas and experiences, no need to dissect or debunk, just sharing. I like the PUG forum because it is fun but I also feel safe enough to share my experiences and thoughts without fear of ridicule.

Is PUG a paranormal investigation board? I thought we were a discussion forum. Am I mistaken?

It is both ... as in, I am aware that there are Investigation Teams on this board ... as well as those who dialog and debate what is and is not Paranormal. Just look at the comments on Ghost Hunters and such.

But if I'm wrong - MOD's please let me know .. I have been known to be wrong once, until I checked and found I was not... /wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='B)' />

JUST JOKING .... but not joking, please if I'm wrong and out of line... Be the first to "Gibb's me" upside the head.

NCIS fans will know exactly what I mean! /wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

KK - Look 3/4 of the way down the Forum Page:

Science and the Paranormal

Then the first TOPIC IS: Paranormal Investigations

So I think it is both .... at least that is my deductive reasoning skills at work. /wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

Which means the prior post of mine easily applies here .. if on nother grounds - Good Dialog! /biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' />

Not addressed to K.K. This post has been in process for a few weeks now, based on some concerns I and other's have begun to see happening in a lot of claimed Paranormal INVESTIGATION groups/teams. This is a 'victim' of timing not K.K.

--- MULTI-FORUM POST ---

This is an observation that has been growing in a number of boards and forums that claim to be "Paranormal INVESTIGATION" boards.

Comments?

Is PUG a paranormal investigation board? I thought we were a discussion forum. Am I mistaken?

--- MULTI-FORUM POST ---

This is an observation that has been growing in a number of boards and forums that claim to be "Paranormal INVESTIGATION" boards.

The "WOW" or "Emotional" factor. Like GH ...(Ghost Hunters)... is the "WOW" factor winning out? Is "INVESTIGATION" in the Paranormal going Politically Correct or "warm fuzzes" or well ... "selling out"?

In the beginning GH was NOT quick to label "Paranormal" - they wanted to be sure the evidence was there ... now, like so many P.I. groups ... well .... anything and everything is excepted as "Paranormal". Have we so compromised that we might as well call a dripping faucet with a clearly known bad O Ring in it, "Paranormal"?

I feel we've gotten like the Penguins in MADAGASCAR - "Do we tell them the boat is out of gas?" .. "No. Just smile and wave boys, just smile and wave." (I was corrected by my 5 year old granddaughter .. we put out the video and yup .. she was right. I'm so proud of her!!!)

Do we have the integrity - courage and backbone to tell people, "there is no gas" ... or ... have we wimped out and become, "Nod Smile and wave (smile) ..." and allow the truth to be compromised, hidden and such ... because of fear of 'offending' and seen .. well less then Investigators with INTEGRITY and COURAGE.

Another question is ... why are so many on the "boat of compromise"? What the frakk happened??

Yes, being an investigator means having the gonads to ask the "hard" - "rude" - "mean" - "Not nice" - "closed minded" - "rain on their parade" questions that create honest - truthful and well DOUBT to the claim!

Are we afraid of 'hurting some feelings'?

Hey if they are so emotionally invested that they cannot except honest Q & A's and other observational possibilities ... that tells you right there, at least in my book: They are looking for A SPECIFIC ANSWER .. not the truth! So no matter what, it's time to move on .. because simply put, the truth is not what they are looking for. They are seeking ATTENTION, nothing more and actually a whole lot less.

Are Paranormal Investigators after the "Emotional WOW" or the "Objective Truth"?

Is it time to 're-grow a pair'???

Comments?

Point 1: Because you are an "investigator", everyone has to prove to you that their experience is a "genuine paranormal experience".

My response: No, they don't. You are not a judge and these experiences are not on trial. No one, including Joppa, has any obligation to "prove you wrong" unless they are trying to convince you of something.

Point 2: You are not denying the event is true, you are just "questioning and challenging" the assumption about what it was.

My response: With all due respect, what gives you the right to do that if you are not asked to do so? Joppa did not ask us for our opinions so why do you feel entitled, nay obligated, to offer one?

Point 3: Your "right" to discover what "really happened" is more important than respecting another person's opinion and feelings.

My response: No it isn't.

Point 4: Those of us who just listened to the story and let it pass without expressing doubts or criticisms of Joppa's investigating technique are "choosing to ignore "facts" in favor of accepting a "fiction".

My response: None of us were there. None of us, including you, knows what really happened, so we accept the story and more, we respect Joppa's feelings about the experience. We do not feel the need to judge other people or their experiences and we don't think we have any right to do so unless we are asked. Perhaps you should ask yourself why you were the only one who put up a challenging response to Joppa's post. Obviously, the people who didn't agree just chose not to post anything. It's a very important social skill to say nothing if you can't say something nice. It is also a social skill to not offer unsolicited opinions or advice.

Now can we drop this? We are obviously never going to see eye to eye on this topic.

There's a line from a Tom Hanks' movie, possibly "Sleepless in Seattle", where he's trying to teach his son something and he walks away frustrated saying something to the effect of "it scares me what they don't teach in school anymore".

I was trying to figure out some humor to post to this ... and sadly could not come up with any! /blink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

As my neighbor with a teenage daughter told me, "It seems they do not teach critical thinking or common sense. Only how to be emotional."

I reminded him of two this: "First this too shall pass. Second teenage years are not so much a 'period of time' as they are an "Exclamation Mark" in time." He sort of laughed.

The sad thing is, they are NOT teaching science in school, critical thinking, simple logic, physics and such. Ya, they are teaching them how to put a condom on a banana. I just hope they (kids) realize they are not suppose to go out and buy a banana and put the condom on IT while they are 'exploring' ... But I still wonder if and when that will happen .....

There are students I've talked with that have NO CLUE what Hitler roll was in WW II. They only know he was a political leader and that is all. Seems history, like science is being 'short versioned' .... seriously short versioned.

It is sad .. indeed.....

No, I get your point. I just disagree with you.

Let's just agree to disagree and let this drop.

Then please - humor me - what is my point?

Okay - .... it is clear you are missing the point ... so I'm just going to respectfully bow out of the dialog with you.

No, I get your point. I just disagree with you.

Let's just agree to disagree and let this drop.

I went back through the personal experience posts in the forum and could not find one other time that someone's personal experience was challenged unless they had asked for people's opinions. Why was poor Joppa the first?

1) The experience was not offered as "proof" of the paranormal.

2) Joppa posted in the personal experiences category, not the paranormal debate or science and the paranormal categories.

3) We were not asked for our opinion or for alternate explanations.

4) We are not the paranormal police. We are neither Joppa's boss nor teacher. We have no right, therefore, to put our two cents in when it is not asked for. That's not scientific. It's just rude and in this instance, it was mean.

5) There would have been plenty of opportunities to talk about investigative techniques on this board. This was simply not the time. It was a time to let another person be happy about something.

Let me put it to you this way. If you posted that you had a new grandchild, would you rather us 1) congratulate you and share in your happiness, or 2) tell you that the planet is too crowded already?

Just my opinion, but it's a very strongly held one.

Okay - .... it is clear you are missing the point ... so I'm just going to respectfully bow out of the dialog with you.

1) The experience was not offered as "proof" of the paranormal.

2) Joppa posted in the personal experiences category, not the paranormal debate or science and the paranormal categories.

3) We were not asked for our opinion or for alternate explanations.

4) We are not the paranormal police. We are neither Joppa's boss nor teacher. We have no right, therefore, to put our two cents in when it is not asked for. That's not scientific. It's just rude and in this instance, it was mean.

5) There would have been plenty of opportunities to talk about investigative techniques on this board. This was simply not the time. It was a time to let another person be happy about something.

Let me put it to you this way. If you posted that you had a new grandchild, would you rather us 1) congratulate you and share in your happiness, or 2) tell you that the planet is too crowded already?

Just my opinion, but it's a very strongly held one.