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Does it really matter?
September 5, 2009
4:55 pm PDT
NoWhammies
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Here's a question for debate. Does it really matter if paranormal television shows fake evidence? I'm not saying they do or they don't, and I'm not saying that it matters or it doesn't. I'd be interested to hear from those who think it matters and why they feel that way, and I am interested to hear from those who don't think it matters and why they feel that way.

Discuss. Politely, please. /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

September 5, 2009
5:28 pm PDT
ourobouros2k2
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To me, I think it matters because, despite all their fallacies, these shows tend to be the only form of paranormal investigation that the public sees. Thus, they equate their actions with those of all groups. I would like to think that most people are informed enough to know that these types of shows are for entertainment only, but sometimes it seems like every client views you as TAPS or at least that is the standard by which you are judged.

The average client appears to think that every investigation will bring the same results as the heavily edited tv ghost hunts. They sometimes perceive a lack of exciting evidence to be a deficiency in skills of the investigator, and generally won't acknowledge that their residence is not haunted or has a perfectly explainable reason for the "haunting". Real investigation is like watching paint dry, and about as exciting. For clients expecting thrills, spills, and chills like they see on GH or other paranormal shows, this is frowned upon. A trend I have noticed lately, is that it becomes quite popular with friends and neighbors to have your supposed ghosts hunted, and be the talk of the neighborhood association. With pressure like that to produce evidence, I am sure those types of clients don't care about the authenticity.





September 5, 2009
5:56 pm PDT
NoWhammies
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To me, I think it matters because, despite all their fallacies, these shows tend to be the only form of paranormal investigation that the public sees. Thus, they equate their actions with those of all groups. I would like to think that most people are informed enough to know that these types of shows are for entertainment only, but sometimes it seems like every client views you as TAPS or at least that is the standard by which you are judged.

The average client appears to think that every investigation will bring the same results as the heavily edited tv ghost hunts. They sometimes perceive a lack of exciting evidence to be a deficiency in skills of the investigator, and generally won't acknowledge that their residence is not haunted or has a perfectly explainable reason for the "haunting". Real investigation is like watching paint dry, and about as exciting. For clients expecting thrills, spills, and chills like they see on GH or other paranormal shows, this is frowned upon. A trend I have noticed lately, is that it becomes quite popular with friends and neighbors to have your supposed ghosts hunted, and be the talk of the neighborhood association. With pressure like that to produce evidence, I am sure those types of clients don't care about the authenticity.

Fair enough. Do you think that without paranormal shows, people would be less likely to seek confirmation of a pre-conceived bias such as you describe above?

September 5, 2009
6:06 pm PDT
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It does to me.

1) I believe paranormal activity is real, and I feel for people who live in haunted houses and have no place to turn, except for a local paranormal group which learned their investigative skills from a tv show like Ghost Hunters or Ghost Adventures, and take those shows seriously.

2) These shows milk gullible people for a profit, and make legitimate paranormal researchers look like hustlers.

The only upside is that more people are comfortable talking about their experiences.

September 5, 2009
8:35 pm PDT
RyanNREMTP
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Agree with the above posts. TV shows have helped spread the fad of paranormal ghost hunting. Like I've said before, it used to almost taboo to talk about ghosts and stuff. Now, it's starting to be no big deal. My partner, who is on my team, and I were discussing a past case and someone that I would never had thought to believe in the stuff, started telling us about his experiences.

So yes it does matter to us if TV shows fake evidence. But to the general public, I don't think it matters. It is up to us to educate the public about what is real and what is not real.

I think another debate for Karen to start up is: what is the proper way to educate the public about ghosts.

September 5, 2009
9:02 pm PDT
ourobouros2k2
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Fair enough. Do you think that without paranormal shows, people would be less likely to seek confirmation of a pre-conceived bias such as you describe above?

That is a tough question. If they are at their wit's end, and in genuine need, I think so. I guess what I am wondering is that in a world without paranormal shows, would it be as "fashionable" to have your home investigated and receive the bragging rights associated with such. There would still be folks like that, I think. The need for attention was there before the popularity of ghost hunters, but it was less socially acceptable to admit or say that your house might be haunted.

Interesting debate

Andy





September 5, 2009
10:49 pm PDT
NoWhammies
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That is a tough question. If they are at their wit's end, and in genuine need, I think so. I guess what I am wondering is that in a world without paranormal shows, would it be as "fashionable" to have your home investigated and receive the bragging rights associated with such. There would still be folks like that, I think. The need for attention was there before the popularity of ghost hunters, but it was less socially acceptable to admit or say that your house might be haunted.

Interesting debate

Andy

Y'know – it's funny – I never even considered the whole bragging rights thing. Especially when it comes to resale value. I remember about 15 years ago a house in town that had had a horrific triple murder many years ago. Of course the house was reputed to be haunted. The good news for the owners, who tried for YEARS to sell it was that it was along a street that eventually became zoned for commercial use, and they sold it so that an Albertsons and attendant mini-mall types of businesses could be built there. When it was up for sale as a home, no one would touch it. So that is really interesting to contemplate how much it has changed!

Ryan and Julia – you both make really good points, as well. I'd be interested to hear from someone who doesn't believe it matters.

September 6, 2009
2:36 am PDT
ourobouros2k2
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Y'know – it's funny – I never even considered the whole bragging rights thing. Especially when it comes to resale value. I remember about 15 years ago a house in town that had had a horrific triple murder many years ago. Of course the house was reputed to be haunted. The good news for the owners, who tried for YEARS to sell it was that it was along a street that eventually became zoned for commercial use, and they sold it so that an Albertsons and attendant mini-mall types of businesses could be built there. When it was up for sale as a home, no one would touch it. So that is really interesting to contemplate how much it has changed!

Ryan and Julia – you both make really good points, as well. I'd be interested to hear from someone who doesn't believe it matters.

Hehe, y'know my wife was thinking about going into reality just so we could get an inside track on properties with problematic pasts and reputed hauntings. Always been my dream to own (not necessarily live in) my very own research site..





September 6, 2009
9:27 pm PDT
MysticalKnight
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Yes, it matters if paranormal shows fake evidence because doing so casts doubt on the entire field.

Fairy.jpg
September 7, 2009
2:25 am PDT
Michelle Pillow
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Here's a question for debate. Does it really matter if paranormal television shows fake evidence? I'm not saying they do or they don't, and I'm not saying that it matters or it doesn't. I'd be interested to hear from those who think it matters and why they feel that way, and I am interested to hear from those who don't think it matters and why they feel that way.

Discuss. Politely, please. /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='^_^' />

My thoughts on this are simple. If you put yourself out there as "real", tell the truth. If you put yourself out there as entertainment, then entertain. Just be up front about your purpose.

I write books. I take pictures.



I sometimes try to tap into my Jedi powers.

~Michelle Pillow Author Website~

The Raven Books



September 7, 2009
3:06 am PDT
NoWhammies
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Well you people are not debating at all. You're all agreeing. *sigh* Oh well – probably better that way!

September 8, 2009
1:45 am PDT
almosthunted
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Well, I am going to change the color of this debate/agreement by saying that I don't think it matters one whit if they fake hauntings. Its television. My favorite, ABSOLUTE FAVORITE paranormal television show is and always has been Most Haunted.

Really, paranormal investigation is still an unproven science. How can anyone claim to be a professional or a genuine "ghost hunter"?

I grew up in a house that has ALOT of activity that cannot be explained. (witnessed by more than myself) Would I have Ghost Hunters come to investigate? No more so than I would try to get Karl and Yvette come by the next time they come across the pond! However, ETPRS is on the top of the list if we get an opportunity to conduct an investigation.

It is unfortunate if people believe that something they see on television is the be-all and end-all of paranormal investigation and base a group on that.

Paranormal television shows are for entertainment…hence my favorite for entertainment, Most Haunted

September 8, 2009
2:15 am PDT
RyanNREMTP
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And you are basing this on knowledge that you have gained over the years. You post here on a regular basis and write articles about the paranormal. For the average person who witnesses a single paranormal event and doesn't know anything about it, they will get their information off the TV and what they can find on the internet. They may join a forum and ask a few questions and then that's it. Bye bye gone.

Their first impression is what they see on TV with any of the several paranormal shows that are on. Is Most Haunted or Paranormal State the show you want a potential client to base your investigation methods on?

So in the long run it really does matter to us how these shows represent us as a whole.

September 8, 2009
2:35 am PDT
almosthunted
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As an afterthought, and actually something I meant to put into that post:

Paranormal investigation was not invented by television ghost hunters.

Someone way smarter than I posted here how long people have been experiencing and seeking answers to questions they have no answers for. JDHarrison is a wonderful source to go to with questions about how long ghosts/spirits/demons have been reported and investigated. How many generations ago were people conducting seances to contact the dead…?

I really, seriously, have never met someone who believed ANYTHING that was shown on a paranormal television show. We have had the WTF moments, but to believe that flying brick at the GoldField or scratches on Stuart at the Ancient Ram Inn as evidence is a stretch at best.

Now for those people who say that GH/GHI/MH, ad nauseum have never faked evidence, I put forth only one theory: editing.

September 8, 2009
2:58 am PDT
sympathyforthedevil
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Does not matter, at all. It's about tv first, and money and ratings. I think paranormal just happens to be the theme. Like cooking shows, in real life I don't have my cooking ingredients all separate, in pretty little bowls like Marths Stewart. My kitchen is not staged like set of a tv show, even though I've used some of Martha's recipes.

Tv paranormal shows are not real life. I'm not saying they are real or fake.

The shows are edited, scripted, and have retakes just like any other tv show.

Imo, I can't even compare. I watch for entertainmnet.

September 8, 2009
3:13 am PDT
NoWhammies
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Does not matter, at all. It's about tv first, and money and ratings. I think paranormal just happens to be the theme. Like cooking shows, in real life I don't have my cooking ingredients all separate, in pretty little bowls like Marths Stewart. My kitchen is not staged like set of a tv show, even though I've used some of Martha's recipes.

Tv paranormal shows are not real life. I'm not saying they are real or fake.

The shows are edited, scripted, and have retakes just like any other tv show.

Imo, I can't even compare. I watch for entertainmnet.

I'm sad to say that sometimes I do have my cooking ingredients all pre-measured in little bowls. I find that mise en place helps me when timing is an issue. If it isn't, I just dump…

September 8, 2009
3:14 am PDT
almosthunted
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So,is it real? or edited to look real? and then while in post what's the spin? Jason has scratches…jason has cats at home…I got nothin. It must be paranormal

September 8, 2009
3:17 am PDT
NoWhammies
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So,is it real? or edited to look real? and then while in post what's the spin? Jason has scratches…jason has cats at home…I got nothin. It must be paranormal!]

I have a swollen purple toe (unfortunate barefoot accident with something falling out of the fridge). Wonder if it is paranormal. /blink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' />

September 8, 2009
3:25 am PDT
almosthunted
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Sorry, Karen. Meat Loaf says its all your fault!

September 8, 2009
3:41 am PDT
sympathyforthedevil
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I'm sad to say that sometimes I do have my cooking ingredients all pre-measured in little bowls. I find that mise en place helps me when timing is an issue. If it isn't, I just dump…

Big meals it's great, holidays and such. I just normally dump.

I did 2 loads fo dishes today from cooking, I get into anti dish moods. /laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Laugh' />

My mom gave me some old recipes from my grandmother when I was young.

The chocolate cake recipe comes to mind. Two glasses of flour, a half a glass of water, and so on with glass measuring.

When I was young and made the cake, I asked my mom, what's up with the glass measurement.

Her answer, old country we were poor, not fancy shpancy. no measuring cups. Just grab a drinking glass. Mom, I have all different sizes. She said, see your too fancy. /laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Laugh' />

I've sort of adopted this style, grab and throw.

My mother never measures a thing. Amazing cook.

Hope your foot feels better. Half my butt is turning green, once a month someone elses horse manages to kick me.

I'm hitting the pain meds. /wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' />

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