Yes, this is true. My initial reaction that the republicans were to blame was premature and ill informed, it was totally emotional and missed the mark. I can't take back my words but I do apologize for trying to make it a republican vs. democratic issue. Personally, I am an Independent so I do see that both sides contribute good and bad ideas. I will have to look into the cuts you are talking about with the Pell Grant since this will affect my family as well. In regards to us all being idiots for voting these folks into office: I just don't understand why it is so difficult for people who are honest and want to make smart, common sense decisions to be successful in American politics. I think many of them start out with the best of intentions but in order to "succeed" they have to start making shady deals and quickly lose sight of why they entered this type of work. The cynicism seems almost necessary, in that they must resort to choosing the lesser of two evils (which is still choosing evil). Well, I do agree that it doesn't help to fight amongst ourselves but it is good to discuss and debate the issues. Thank goodness we live in a country where we can do that!

Awwww, don't worry about it. We are all passionate about our country. I have been known to be a bit too passionate myself. I think I have gone after the Democrats a time or two. /laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':mellow:' />

To be quite honest, if there was a trustworthy Democrat, I would vote for him or her. Or even an Independent. Just wish we could fine somebody who can do the dang job correctly. Are we asking for too much?

Well I signed it and I am a Republican. I think Planned Parenthood is crucial in today's society.

I also think education is also crucial and "somebody" just cut the krap out of the Pell Grant budget. Hooo hummm.... I needed those Pell Grants to help put my children through college. What can you do?

I think we are all idiots for voting these dumbarses into office. Doesn't matter if they are Democrat or Republican, they need to stop spending the money like water on stupid stuff. Both sides are guilty of it.

Fighting amongst ourselves is not helping either. We need to stick togather as a country and fix it......togather.

Yes, this is true. My initial reaction that the republicans were to blame was premature and ill informed, it was totally emotional and missed the mark. I can't take back my words but I do apologize for trying to make it a republican vs. democratic issue. Personally, I am an Independent so I do see that both sides contribute good and bad ideas. I will have to look into the cuts you are talking about with the Pell Grant since this will affect my family as well. In regards to us all being idiots for voting these folks into office: I just don't understand why it is so difficult for people who are honest and want to make smart, common sense decisions to be successful in American politics. I think many of them start out with the best of intentions but in order to "succeed" they have to start making shady deals and quickly lose sight of why they entered this type of work. The cynicism seems almost necessary, in that they must resort to choosing the lesser of two evils (which is still choosing evil). Well, I do agree that it doesn't help to fight amongst ourselves but it is good to discuss and debate the issues. Thank goodness we live in a country where we can do that!

I am so effin sick of people in power screwing stuff like this up. It is so stupid to stop funding for an obviously important organization like Planned Parenthood! Yes, I have used their services and I know many others whose lives would have drastically changed if PP had not existed. These stupid Republicans do not have a God damned clue what it is like to live as an average person in this country. If they think that taking away the funding from PP will help them make a point about Obamacare, then they are way off track. I am insulted as a woman, a mother of two young woman and as a taxpayer. I signed the letter and shared it with my friends and family. I was happy to see that some of my PUG family feels just as incensed as I do. Now, to contact my state's leaders...

Well I signed it and I am a Republican. I think Planned Parenthood is crucial in today's society.

I also think education is also crucial and "somebody" just cut the krap out of the Pell Grant budget. Hooo hummm.... I needed those Pell Grants to help put my children through college. What can you do?

I think we are all idiots for voting these dumbarses into office. Doesn't matter if they are Democrat or Republican, they need to stop spending the money like water on stupid stuff. Both sides are guilty of it.

Fighting amongst ourselves is not helping either. We need to stick togather as a country and fix it......togather.

I still feel that Planned Parenthood's presence is needed for folks who don't have insurance or young people who can not go to their parent's with their concerns and needs. I understand that it may have become a huge conglomerate with lobbyists and what not but I just can't see throwing out the baby with the bathwater (no pun intended). I don't have any statistics or studies to cite but my own experience as a young woman was positive and helpful. I was never marketed to or even approached about abortion when I went to Planned Parenthood. They answered my questions, provided me with loads of literature, gave me an exam, taught me how to use my birth control effectively and charged me according to a sliding scale. I just think that if we need to make cuts, lets not make them where the most disadvantaged people are. The cycle of poverty is difficult to escape from so lets not take away a service that can still be helpful to those without resources. I am not pro- abortion, but I am pro- choice. I respect NY's stand on religious grounds and I respect the idea of being fiscally responsible but as the point was already stated in this thread my tax money goes to LOTS of things that I don't support either and so as taxpayers we just have to suck it up and vote in folks that will hopefully truly represent the will of the people. In my opinion, it is not accurate to say birth control, abortion and sexual health should be viewed in the same light as elective surgery. To me, that is comparing apples to oranges. I do believe that people who use abortion as a form of birth control need to be dealt with differently than the average person seeking services. I know these women do exist but I don't believe it is a common as some might think. Even though it is a woman's choice to do what she wants with her own body, she may not have the means to pay for it herself. Some women are pregnant and do not have the support of the father of the child and so the state, federal and/ or local governments do step in to assist. It may be abortion (if she so chooses) or it could be welfare for her and her child. It could also be parenting classes, GED classes, childcare services so she can get a degree and become a self sufficient citizen and parent. I don't mind helping someone out like that with my tax dollars. In a perfect world, everyone would be responsible and either abstain from premarital sex if it was against their religion or at least practice safe sex if they believed it was ok for them to do. Unfortunately, this world is far from perfect and many people do have sex for reasons other than procreation. Pregnancy can happen to good people who weren't planning on having a child, it is not always someone of low morals. When this happens I do hope that they can have someone to talk to that will assist them in making a plan whether it is to keep the child, give the child up for adoption or abortion (hopefully, as a last resort). It is a difficult topic to talk about, because it is so personal but involves politics and religion. I'm glad to see we can enter this mine field and share our thoughts and beliefs. It is good to see other's points of view, thanks.

I respect your opinion and I am also glad that we can have a rational discussion about this highly divisive subject.

I don't want to be a **** about this, but other than the 5% of abortions that are necessary for the mother's health, abortion IS an elective procedure.

Webster's dictionary defines the word "elective" as:

a : permitting a choice : optional <an elective course in school>

b : beneficial to the patient but not essential for survival <elective surgery>

Since 95% of abortions are not due to medical necessity but rather are a choice that is beneficial to the patient but not essential for survival, 95% of abortions are elective surgery.

It's a shame we don't have a "mystery question of life" thread somewhere.

As a male on here let me throw at least 2 cents into the discussion...One I am pro-life (or anti-abortion you choose) All I want to ask is when people who say they are for the right of a woman to choose they, or some, say they don't want the government telling them what to do with their bodies.

OK fair enough. But if that is the case then why should a federal, state or local government pay for what you decide to do with your body?

If people want the government not to tell them what to do...then hey....don't take their money.

I agree with you completely. Abortion is elective surgery. So is cosmetic surgery. I don't expect other people to pay for me to get my face lift.

I would also like to make a few more points. I promise to shut up after this.

1) The government does pay for abortions. Medicaid is a federally funded program and it pays for legal abortions when the mother's health is at risk or in the case of rape or incest. We all know that "health risk" is a pretty broad standard since even the "mental health" of the woman can be considered.

2) Medical schools, clinics and hospitals that receive federal money train the doctors who perform the abortions. That means we are paying for their training. Our tax dollars actually make abortions possible.

3) There is nothing that PP does that isn't provided elsewhere. Why not put the money into health department clinics and hospitals that the government is already funding? More efficiency, more streamlining, and less duplication of efforts would allow more people to receive care for the same amount of money. Our government is on the brink of total insolvency. We are in serious danger of not being able to pay even the interest on our debt. We have to cut spending somewhere and PP is a good place to start. If PP does do something special than it will be able to stand on it's own. After all, they make a lot of money and they get a ton of private donations.

4) Abortion is a billion dollar a year industry and PP is the nation's largest abortion provider. PP actively pursues this business and is very good at marketing itself. Even as the annual abortion rate fell, the number of abortions performed by PP clinics rose more than sixty percent. They are so successful at marketing that other abortion providers complain that they can't compete with PP. But that's not enough to satisfy PP which has stated that their goal is for all of their clinics be able to perform abortions.

5) In addition to profits from performing the actual abortion procedure, abortions supply industry and academia with fetal parts, tissues and cells. This is HUGELY profitable. Pharmaceutical and cosmetic companies often use aborted fetal material in their products. ( I have personal experience with this because a dermatologist sold me a skin care cream that I later found out used fetal cells from aborted babies. You can imagine the horror I felt when I found out only after using it for a week or so. Ick, ick, ick!)

6) PP is actively pursuing a higher end clientele. They are opening clinics that are very upscale in suburban neighborhoods. These clinics are very profitable and help fund clinics in lower income areas.

7) PP has a very disturbing history. The Washington Post which is in no way a conservative newspaper ran an article revealing PP's bad side and questioning whether they should continue to receive federal funding. In that article, the Post reported that "their confidentiality principles (PP promises not to tell anyone of a teenager’s problems) conflict with laws in every state that require health care workers to report suspected sexual abuse or statutory rape to law enforcers. Not surprisingly, investigators are finding a national pattern of failure to report sex crimes against underage teens". Their failure to report abuse allows it to continue and in my opinion that makes them an accessory to the crimes.

This non-disclosure policy also means that parents and guardians, the people most responsible for the safety and health of children, are not made aware of abuse either. To me, that is an unconscionable intrusion on parental rights and the family and I find it shocking that so many parents support this organization.

The Post reports that "In 2002 Life Dynamics, a pro-life group based in Texas, called 800 abortion clinics around the country, many of them run by Planned Parenthood. The caller would say she was a 13-year-old girl whose boyfriend was 22, and she needed an abortion. Ninety-one percent of the clinics told the caller they would give her an abortion, but warned her not to reveal her boyfriend’s age". PP clinics were not only willing to hide statutory rape but ADVISED THE GIRL NOT TO REVEAL IT. I think we can safely call this a pattern of violating the law, not a case of a few bad apples in the bunch.

Read the article for yourself at http://www.washingtontimes.com.....ews/2008/m...rtion-industry/

8) PP endangers women by participating in clinical studies of contraception methods, allowing their patients to be used as guinea pigs. They make big money off of this.

9) Out of the 6 American women who have died after taking the abortion pill RU-486, four got the pill from a Planned Parenthood clinic. Yet Planned Parenthood refuses to comply with FDA guidelines, permitting women to take the drug at home rather than at a clinic as the FDA advises.

10) PP actively fights legislation that would require their clinics to meet the safety requirements of other ambulatory clinics.

11) Aborted babies would not end up in the foster system or dumpsters. There is a HUGE waiting list for infants for adoption. The wait is years long. That's why so many Americans go overseas to adopt.

OK fair enough. But if that is the case then why should a federal, state or local government pay for what you decide to do with your body?

If people want the government not to tell them what to do...then hey....don't take their money.

This is like being in the dark ages!

The problem here is that our government wants us in the dark ages. It really is only going to get worse. They think we (men and women alike) are too stupid to see what's happening. I know that sounds almost conspiracy theory like, but I really feel that there is so much more coming down the line.

One day, we (women) will wake up and realize that our combined voices are greater than one voice alone. As you said, maybe Egypt and Tunisia are on to something.

As to my comment about money going to prisons, I was simply stating that we don't control when our tax money goes. I'm sure my tax dollars fund a whole lot of crap I don't agree with, but there isn't much I can do.

Women's health care is being determined by our government here.

Is that just not enough, to disgust any living person in our country with the right to vote?

Btw, I would think the numbers on abortions, not reported would be much larger, beyond PP.

But, imo it doesn't matter, because it's about choice.

What is actually more frightening to me that choice could be taken away.

If you want the service it's there, if not okay also.

I get concerned about what could be taken away, next.

It comes down to our freedoms and government control.

Tax dollars are spent on many things, I have not found important.

But, not funding a health care service, is insane.

AND AS STATED IN THE OP, PP DOESN'T USE FEDERAL MONEY FOR ABORTIONS. IT USES THAT MONEY FOR SEVERAL OTHER, VERY IMPORTANT THINGS.

PP may not use our tax money to abort babies per se but our taxes buy and maintain their offices, pay for their personnel, and pay for the counseling that leads to the abortion. So PP tells us tax payers that we aren't financing abortions, we're just paying for the office space, the personnel, and the pre-abortion counseling. I'm sorry, but that just does not relieve my mind.

Im curious as to what you mean by this. If you mean it funds the doctors time that give the abortions it does not. If you mean it pays for the abortion rooms, it does not. And PP does not actually give counseling but referrals for counseling so there is no way that it gets paid for that way.

If you mean, the receptionist, the nurse that takes the blood, the STD doctor, anyone that is with this organization because they are through this I have to disagree. They do a lot of good.

Frankly, what upsets me is not a democrat or republican thing. I believe there is enough stupidity to go around in politics. There is a political term kakistocracy, which means government by the worst or least qualified citizens of a society. I often wonder how close we are to that ideal. Too close, frankly. It brings up interesting political debate. Our government is locked in with democrats and republicans, and third parties have a very difficult time getting a foothold, because Dems and Reps do everything in their power to maintain a two party system so that their power will not be corrupted. And yet we see all of the time that the citizens of the country seem to want something else; however, they are too afraid to vote for third party candidates, because they believe it is a wasted vote. My father and I have this argument, because I have been known to be a little bit of a political windmill tilter. I vote and support third parties all of the time. I have been active in several attempted third party startups, and I will continue to be because I am an idealist.

The media and the politicians have created such a HUGE split and everyone thinks they have to choose either right or left. Each party preys upon the fears of the citizens and pushes social issues. The media is no better. The state of politics in this country and the "neutral" fourth estate, which is supposed to be the watchdog of government - not the lapdog - are beyond ridiculous. I love this country, but quite honestly I find our whole political system and the incestuous relationships between the press and the politicians absolutely shameful.

The press is not the watchdog of government. Government doesn't exist for or of the people - it exists to sustain itself and to retain power. And don't even get me started on PACs. I can't know for sure exactly what our founding fathers intended, but I am pretty darn sure it isn't this.

I will stop now. I get really riled up. It's often better to just keep my mouth shut. There is a reason I almost never discuss politics. People assume it is because I am apolitical. Actually, it is quite the opposite.

I've felt like this for awhile, matter of fact most of my life. The government ideal for this country was "for the people, by the people".

Our founding fathers, I hope supported this.

I'm moderate. but maybe have turned into an angry moderate.

The media and the politicians have created such a HUGE split and everyone thinks they have to choose either right or left. Each party preys upon the fears of the citizens and pushes social issues. The media is no better. The state of politics in this country and the "neutral" fourth estate, which is supposed to be the watchdog of government - not the lapdog - are beyond ridiculous. I love this country, but quite honestly I find our whole political system and the incestuous relationships between the press and the politicians absolutely shameful.

The press is not the watchdog of government. Government doesn't exist for or of the people - it exists to sustain itself and to retain power. And don't even get me started on PACs. I can't know for sure exactly what our founding fathers intended, but I am pretty darn sure it isn't this.

I will stop now. I get really riled up. It's often better to just keep my mouth shut. There is a reason I almost never discuss politics. People assume it is because I am apolitical. Actually, it is quite the opposite.