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Ogres and Neanderthal Man?
June 27, 2010
11:14 pm PDT
pooperdooper
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I was just pondering the possibility that Neanderthal man could have been the Ogres of lore referred

to by ancient Britton and older authors. Could the fear and loathing of these creatures aided in their extinction?

It seems more than coincidence that both Ogres and Neanderthals prefered caves much as a stone bridge would appear to be cave. It seems as though the overlap in timelines between Homo Sapiens and Neanderthals might support this idea.The physical description from early Britton writings are not very far off in similairity. An archaeologist would probably have a better take on this than anyone. If the subject has been written about please share any information that may be at hand. Any other ideas out there?

June 28, 2010
10:26 pm PDT
nypdretired
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It would make sense given the look of the Neanderthals. But I'm not sure if they were still around by the time Britons had the ability to make stone bridges. The time line would be off. Could the primative rememberances by homo sapiens of the Neanderthals have carried down through the generations as a folktale? I would say so. Or Ogres could just have been a story told along hte lines of a knight slaying a dragon to enhance his own daring adventures.

I'm not always right but I'm never wrong.



The above are my opinions.
July 1, 2010
10:03 pm PDT
norcalmonkey
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July 3, 2010
1:14 pm PDT
pooperdooper
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Neanderthal might be a stretch but after looking at timelines a little closer the remnants of Hiedlberg man

could have been around well after the start of written history. I don't have a clue for the timeline of when the first primitive bridges would have been erected but I'd venture a guess that it wasn't long after the advent of the farming non-nomadic community in Europe. Any paleontologist or archaeologists can jump in here at any time and shed some light on this for me, we or us. Nice Homo-Erectus there MONK ! I wonder if that feller ever got over his outrage at being stereotyped as mildly mentally disabled. /laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Laugh' />

July 10, 2010
5:18 am PDT
Willa Taylor
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let's see, possibly the oldest stone bridge is located in Greece, known as the Mycenaean Arkadiko bridge. It dates to about 1300BC. The first Neanderthals started 350,000 years ago, and went as late as 24,000 years ago.

So it doesn't seem likely. Although I couldn't find a year on wood or possibly mud bridges. But it is possible that maybe some people found neanderthal skeletons under the site of constructed bridges.

Good discussion by the way.

Whoever said 'nothing is impossible' never tried nailing Jell-o to a tree.
July 18, 2010
12:12 am PDT
pooperdooper
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I have just been informed that inter-breeding between early europeans

and Neanderthals has already been proven. The documented residual DNA

percentage up until our present time is at 1-4%. I will find the article and and

try to post it here if my 1-4% doesn't hinder my posting abilities. /laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':blink:' />

That was a vague attempt at upsetting the Gieco Cavemen. /wink.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

July 18, 2010
12:23 am PDT
pooperdooper
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…..and here it is fresh from Wikipedia:

However, an analysis of a first draft of the Neanderthal genome by the same team released in May 2010 indicates that interbreeding did occur.[4][5] "Those of us who live outside Africa carry a little Neanderthal DNA in us," said Pääbo, who led the study. "The proportion of Neanderthal-inherited genetic material is about 1 to 4 percent. It is a small but very real proportion of ancestry in non-Africans today," says Dr. David Reich of Harvard Medical School in Boston, who worked on the study. This research compared the genome of the Neanderthals to five modern humans from China, France, sub-Saharan Africa, and Papua New Guinea. The finding is that about 1 to 4 percent of the genes of the non-Africans came from Neanderthals, compared to the baseline defined by the two Africans. This indicates a gene flow from Neanderthals to modern humans, i.e., interbreeding between the two populations. Since the three non-African genomes show a similar proportion of Neanderthal sequences, the interbreeding must have occurred early in the migration of modern humans out of Africa, perhaps in the Middle East. No evidence for gene flow in the direction from modern humans to Neanderthals was found. The latter result would not be unexpected if contact occurred between a small colonizing population of modern humans and a much larger resident population of Neanderthals. A very limited amount of interbreeding could explain the findings, if it occurred early enough in the colonization process.[4]

While interbreeding is viewed as the most parsimonious interpretation of the genetic discoveries, the authors point out that they cannot conclusively rule out an alternative scenario, in which the source population of non-African modern humans was already more closely related to Neanderthals than other Africans were, due to ancient genetic divisions within Africa.[4]

Among the genes shown to differ between present-day humans and Neanderthals were RPTN, SPAG17, CAN15, TTF1 and PCD16.[4]

Have a Neanderthal Ogerish Day! /laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

July 19, 2010
3:40 pm PDT
nypdretired
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…..and here it is fresh from Wikipedia:

However, an analysis of a first draft of the Neanderthal genome by the same team released in May 2010 indicates that interbreeding did occur.[4][5] "Those of us who live outside Africa carry a little Neanderthal DNA in us," said Pääbo, who led the study. "The proportion of Neanderthal-inherited genetic material is about 1 to 4 percent. It is a small but very real proportion of ancestry in non-Africans today," says Dr. David Reich of Harvard Medical School in Boston, who worked on the study. This research compared the genome of the Neanderthals to five modern humans from China, France, sub-Saharan Africa, and Papua New Guinea. The finding is that about 1 to 4 percent of the genes of the non-Africans came from Neanderthals, compared to the baseline defined by the two Africans. This indicates a gene flow from Neanderthals to modern humans, i.e., interbreeding between the two populations. Since the three non-African genomes show a similar proportion of Neanderthal sequences, the interbreeding must have occurred early in the migration of modern humans out of Africa, perhaps in the Middle East. No evidence for gene flow in the direction from modern humans to Neanderthals was found. The latter result would not be unexpected if contact occurred between a small colonizing population of modern humans and a much larger resident population of Neanderthals. A very limited amount of interbreeding could explain the findings, if it occurred early enough in the colonization process.[4]

While interbreeding is viewed as the most parsimonious interpretation of the genetic discoveries, the authors point out that they cannot conclusively rule out an alternative scenario, in which the source population of non-African modern humans was already more closely related to Neanderthals than other Africans were, due to ancient genetic divisions within Africa.[4]

Among the genes shown to differ between present-day humans and Neanderthals were RPTN, SPAG17, CAN15, TTF1 and PCD16.[4]

Have a Neanderthal Ogerish Day! /laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=';)' />

Ernest Borgnine thanks you!

I'm not always right but I'm never wrong.



The above are my opinions.
January 11, 2011
2:41 pm PDT
Jordan Burnes
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You also have to look at the fact that they date the neanderthals at dying out in a certain period of time because they have not found any skeletens that have been circa'd past a certain date, and it is very possible that there still are skeleteons lying around from further on in the future (or past technically) and they have just not been found. So it technically could be appropriate, I mean half the cryptids out there are supposed to be old creatueres from millions of years ago that somehow survived to this day… the giant ground sloth, loch ness monster, bigfoot even to a certain extent, the possibilities are just endless… Or hey maybe there were just ugly looking ogre's hangin around at that time lol.

Check out my blog! http://jordanburnes.blogspot.com/



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