Then we should consider if making a change in our lifestyles could assist is lessening the impact of lets call it a normal global warming cycle and whether might be worth it or not. Will an increase in temperatures a 1/4 of a degree add to the rising sea levels enough to make Venice, Italy a ghost town because of the flooding that would result? Would it turn the great barrier reef into just a giant rock wall killing off the coral because of deeper water. With the diluted salinity of the oceans, what will be the increase in cost of shipping because of reduced buoyancy of ships?

But if this carbon credit insanity comes about, I'll tell you here and now that I will raise holy hell when they tax or remove the CO2 from my Dr Pepper! /angry.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':unsure:' />

yeah, i see how (if not blown up completely) this rock will continue until some catastrophic event of huge magnetude. but i still maintain there are changes we make that are impacting creatures living on it, therefor a part of it. (i know, semantics are entering the realm now).

why are teenagers now getting the types of leukemia that 30 years ago was mainly confined to toddlers and younger? why are the teens dying? st judes and other children's hospitals like to quote a success rate of 90%, but the truth is for those 14 and older the rate is closer to 60%. but that figure doesn't bring in the research dollars. ergo when people hear your kid has leukemia, they think 'hey, it's no big deal. it's like a bad cold nowdays, right?' (i had people tell me this.)

isn't it possible we have done something to the environment, feed et al to change the age-range of this disease? doctors have no freakin' idea. and we never know what researchers think til years down the road.

it ain't an ice age, but that ain't the only way to go.

The view seems globalized, as what is happening to the earth as a whole.

I'm a speck on this planet. I'll think in simple terms, and what effects I've had directly to the earth.

I have a septic system, it leached into my well water.

Springs flow under ground, and my sewage may have went into the springs also.

I left an impact. Maybe on others drinking water, due to well fed springs.

Think about it, I did not have to report this to any goverment agency, which I thought odd.

How far did my sewage travel?

We explained to neighbors and suggested they get a well test. We test ours yearly.

I wondered, as this happens who knows.

Hey Gryph!!!

I understand. I think maybe you're saying what ever happens to the earth, from us or the earth's own changes, the earth may start the cycle of life over again.

Even after we may be gone. Do I follow?

They still can't fish in China. /laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

I guess it's do to the warming, waters.

I'm NOT saying people caused it either.

As I believe it's all Al Gores fault. /laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

Yup... that's pretty much where I was going with that... /biggrin.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' />

Hi Symp!!!!

Again, I'm NOT saying that we have NO impact. We certainly do. But not as much as we may think.

Hey Gryph!!!

I understand. I think maybe you're saying what ever happens to the earth, from us or the earth's own changes, the earth may start the cycle of life over again.

Even after we may be gone. Do I follow?

They still can't fish in China. /laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':P' />

I guess it's do to the warming, waters.

I'm NOT saying people caused it either.

As I believe it's all Al Gores fault. /laugh.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

symp: are you feeling better? i hope so. sounds like you had a bad time there.

I'm getting there Annie, thanks so much!

The giant jellyfish in China are ruining the fishing industry now.

Millions are being spent, and it's still not enough.

It's a huge problem, species are moving into new areas.

symp: are you feeling better? i hope so. sounds like you had a bad time there.

I believe estimated age of Earth is 4.55 billion years.

Just about that, given appropriate error bars.

The giant jellyfish in China are ruining the fishing industry now.

Millions are being spent, and it's still not enough.

It's a huge problem, species are moving into new areas.

Hi Symp!!!!

Again, I'm NOT saying that we have NO impact. We certainly do. But not as much as we may think.

but gryph, again, are you speaking of the rock itself only? what about species we wipe out? waters that are unfishable? what if we leave the planet lifeless and uninhabitable, then yeah, it still exists but has been impacted. or are you saying we are too miniscule to do that sort of damage?

The giant jellyfish in China are ruining the fishing industry now.

Millions are being spent, and it's still not enough.

It's a huge problem, species are moving into new areas.

How old is our planet?

I believe estimated age of Earth is 4.55 billion years.

No not at all. I readily acknowledge that we can damage the planet. But look at the big picture. How many species existed before man showed up on the scene? Did we impact them? Nope. Nature is more than capable of wiping the slate clean as it were. I think that the original point was that compared to what the planet can do on it's own, we are but a fly speck to it. It's just pointing out that almost anything we do will be wiped away within a few thousand years once we are gone.

The forests will return, the oceans will clean themselves, the rivers will return to their original ways, there will be giant herds of animals once again roaming the plains. It's just silly to think that little ol' us could be the end of it all.

How old is our planet?

but gryph, again, are you speaking of the rock itself only? what about species we wipe out? waters that are unfishable? what if we leave the planet lifeless and uninhabitable, then yeah, it still exists but has been impacted. or are you saying we are too miniscule to do that sort of damage?

No not at all. I readily acknowledge that we can damage the planet. But look at the big picture. How many species existed before man showed up on the scene? Did we impact them? Nope. Nature is more than capable of wiping the slate clean as it were. I think that the original point was that compared to what the planet can do on it's own, we are but a fly speck to it. It's just pointing out that almost anything we do will be wiped away within a few thousand years once we are gone.

The forests will return, the oceans will clean themselves, the rivers will return to their original ways, there will be giant herds of animals once again roaming the plains. It's just silly to think that little ol' us could be the end of it all.

but gryph, again, are you speaking of the rock itself only? what about species we wipe out? waters that are unfishable? what if we leave the planet lifeless and uninhabitable, then yeah, it still exists but has been impacted. or are you saying we are too miniscule to do that sort of damage?

I think that ole Gryph is trying to advance the biblical dominion argument.

I think what was meant was that the amount of damage that we, as a race, can do to the planet is negligible. I agree that we certainly can hurt it, but when you look at how long the old girl has been here, and everything that she's been through...well, I think that it's silly to think that we can really do that much to her.

Kind of like throwing yourself at a cement wall. Are you doing something to it? Sure. But odds are in the walls favor that you will be quietly whimpering on the floor quickly.

but gryph, again, are you speaking of the rock itself only? what about species we wipe out? waters that are unfishable? what if we leave the planet lifeless and uninhabitable, then yeah, it still exists but has been impacted. or are you saying we are too miniscule to do that sort of damage?